Lisa Shea Forums General Discussion Politics 16-Year-Old Girl Killed By Relatives

I think it hurts the men and women who "order" the killings. They love their children. They're hurt that they're "forced" by society (in their minds) into this horrible position. Yes, there are others who tell them their society's training is wrong. But isn't that always the case? Aren't each of us in a world where some things we do, others around us are telling us we are wrong? We recycle and people tell us recycling isn't worth it. We donate to one charity and people tell us we should be donating to another. So all of us hear "opposite" voices. The issues isn't that they hold to their beliefs. The issue is that they were taught those harmful beliefs by someone they had trust in.

I think we have made HUGE progress on these issues compared with say 2,000 years ago. Yes there are still human right's issues - but we as a culture / civilization are far improved. We have a ways to go - but people who abuse human rights are in the minority and those cultures are diminishing with every passing generation. I feel that is a very good thing.

I don't think so, personally, but I respect your stance.

No-one forces these men to kill or torture their daughters, or have them raped and hidden in a suitcase. They make the choices themselves.

Some men were interviewed, not long back, on the streets of Britain. They weren't criminals or extremists, just local residents.

They were asked it they thought that it was ok to punish women and girls.

They said that if the women had disobeyed, or dishonoured, their families, then yes, it was ok to beat them and even to kill them.
They said it quite openly and in a very matter-of-fact manner.

This happens far too often.
Those girls need protection.
Their menfolk don't need compassion.

It is happening in the educated west, as well as in far-flung villages.

I completely, totally agree that the girls need protection and the laws need reviewing.

But perhaps spreading compassion towards everyone can have some sort of effect on people who commit atrocities. It couldn't hurt and it might help.

How would it help matters, if we showed compassion for these murdering relatives?

How should this compassion be demonstrated?

some people deserve compassion, some don't. and it doesn't matter whether we are talking about now or 2000 years ago. it doesn't even matter whether people use the lame excuse of 'society's rules forced me to do this', or 'i was abused as a child'.

your environment and background are completely irrelevant to realising that it is wrong to harm your own or someone else's child, or to commit rape. whatever your background, we are all capable of knowing these things are wrong. this is why rapists do not rape openly, and why perpetrators of honour killings tend to hide in closed societies. they know they are wrong, and they feel the need to hide.

far from being helpful, the idea of compassion for the perpetrators is harmful. it carries with it the danger of failing to point out to the killers and abusers just how abhorrent these actions are to the rest of civilised society, and without that realisation, rehabilitation is impossible.

sadly, the above quote from the dalai lama highlights one of the respects in which this otherwise wise individual is away with the fairies. its just as dumb as jebus' line about turning the other cheek (i prefer to be a man who stands up for himself, as, ultimately, did jesus). the idea of compassion for the perpetrators comes form the construct of expunging ones emotions, which does not work in any case. not being angry at someone for doing something horribly wrong helps no one but the criminal, and compassion should be given where it is most needed and deserved.

I'm glad that I am not the only one who feels this way.

Janimal, if my daughter were in the hospital with an incurable disease and in unnecessary pain and begged me to let her die in peace and I opted to pull the plug on her would I also be a criminal or a compassionate father? Aren't there two sides to every story? (no offense intended)

It makes me feel ineffably sad that people can believe there are people unworthy of compassion. I guess this is my problem, something I will have to come to terms with and feel peace about.

I think I will have to agree to disagree with you who are saying this. I do not wish to debate - I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown as it is with things in my daily life. Yet again, today, I did everything i could to stave off another anxiety attack.

Maybe some time later, when i have more inner strength, can i enter into discourse about how I feel truly, inside, on these matters. We have to break the cycle of non-empathy somewhere, and I will try to have it begin with me.

It takes all sorts to make a world, Jilly, and you have every right to feel as you feel. I respect your stance and, as I said before, I would even agree with it in certain circumstances. Take care of yourself. That is more important than debating issues

I cannot see any real comparison between these two stories.
A couple of women, here in the UK, have been in the papers for painlessly putting their suffering children out of their agony. How on earth does that compare with painfully and terrifyingly torturing and murdering a healthy young girl?

Where is the other side to this story?