LisaShea Forum Logo
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 14 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14
Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: Gustafson] #382115 08/31/09 12:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
S
skipperdog Offline
Good Friend
Offline
Good Friend
S
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
No, no. You CAN'T say something to intimidate, antagonize, terrorize, or incite to riot. You cannot slander.

Yes the paper can print essays that state a reason why someone disagrees with a law, or the president, etc, but people can't go around using "opinion" or "free speech" to intimidate, denigrate, or otherwise injure.

There's a reason that hate crimes are classified as crimes. And every reasonable person knows that.

Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: skipperdog] #382122 08/31/09 01:34 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,237
Darkness Offline
Soulmate
Offline
Soulmate
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,237
That's why I love Paris so much and will be one day living there with my children. They too have Freedom of Speech, however, that speech has to be responsible. Can not have anything derogatory in it that could cause harm or hate or even violence and can not include slander.

I think there needs to be Freedom of Speech: with responsibility. If you can not be responsible, then you lose your right to it. Speech is not a gift, it is a responsibility we must use respectfully around us.

That being said, most schools do not like things on shirts in general. At least school code wise. I've been out of high school since 2000 and even then there was the rule that there could be no types of graphics or sayings on the clothing that could be deemed offensive to another party. That is being respectful. If you do not like a group of people, keep it to yourself when you're in a public place such as school. That is not a place for a political, racial, or prejudice platform. It is a place to learn.

You can wear your crosses or other symbols of religious beliefs if you want, but leave hate out of it. Teens have it hard enough in school. I was once a goth and dark teen and still kinda am as an adult and parent, but even I know that was just plain stupidity on that man's part.


Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: IronFront] #382144 08/31/09 07:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,307
janimal Offline
Tin Star Soulmate
Offline
Tin Star Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,307
Originally Posted By: yowo
Originally Posted By: *helwa*
most public schools these days have dress code rules stating that no shirts can be worn that express religious or political opinions, and i agree with that. you are free to wear them just not to school.
Not mine. Guess we here don't believe in fascism.


hang on, let me get this straight. so NOT allowing children to wear t-shirts which promote racism is fascism?? where is that covered in 'mein kampf'? or could it be that yowo is chucking around words she doesn't really understand?


It's All got to go!!!

BudeStrings Music Tuition
Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: IronFront] #382146 08/31/09 07:56 AM
P
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
Pudgie's mom
Unregistered
P
Originally Posted By: yowo
I'd prefer not to be thrown in jail because I said I don't like the president. When I turn 18 do my thoughts become more important?
Good taste and decency are relative. Yes, if I have an opinion I do have the right to tell others my opinion.
Yowo, with all due respect, you seem to be missing the distinction between having your opinion and foisting an opinion on others. Secondly, stating that you don't like the president is a far cry from wearing a shirt that denigrates an entire religion and is hate-mongering.

And yes, actually, your thoughts DO become more important when you turn 18 (and even more so when you turn 21). Until then, technically speaking, you are not accorded all the rights (and responsibilities) of adults; you are "in training" to join society.

As several of us have mentioned, the recent legal concept of hate crimes brings an entirely different perspective on "laissez-faire" concepts of free speech (one that's long overdue, i. m. o.).

Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: ] #382148 08/31/09 08:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,307
janimal Offline
Tin Star Soulmate
Offline
Tin Star Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,307
yowo, with the greatest respect your opinions become more important once you start to know what you are talking about. you still seem to be at the age at which you live under the misapprehension of knowing everything, and in this place you are debating against people who have researched this stuff until their eyes have bled. smile


It's All got to go!!!

BudeStrings Music Tuition
Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: janimal] #382168 08/31/09 01:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,666
mbas400 Offline OP
Tin Star Soulmate
OP Offline
Tin Star Soulmate
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,666
Good analogy Jan. My eyes do feel like they are bleeding some days.


Science flies you to the moon
Religion flies you into buildings
Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: janimal] #382197 08/31/09 07:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,954
I
IronFront Offline
Soulmate
Offline
Soulmate
I
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,954
Originally Posted By: Darkness
That's why I love Paris so much and will be one day living there with my children. They too have Freedom of Speech, however, that speech has to be responsible. Can not have anything derogatory in it that could cause harm or hate or even violence and can not include slander.

I should be able to say what I want. It is important that we let racists share their opinions just as we let antifas share their opinions.

I think there needs to be Freedom of Speech: with responsibility. If you can not be responsible, then you lose your right to it. Speech is not a gift, it is a responsibility we must use respectfully around us.

I don't think so. Sure, rights are an illusion, but the freedom of speech should never be taken away.

That being said, most schools do not like things on shirts in general. At least school code wise. I've been out of high school since 2000 and even then there was the rule that there could be no types of graphics or sayings on the clothing that could be deemed offensive to another party. That is being respectful. If you do not like a group of people, keep it to yourself when you're in a public place such as school. That is not a place for a political, racial, or prejudice platform. It is a place to learn.

You can wear your crosses or other symbols of religious beliefs if you want, but leave hate out of it. Teens have it hard enough in school. I was once a goth and dark teen and still kinda am as an adult and parent, but even I know that was just plain stupidity on that man's part.

Wut? So you can wear hateful symbols like the cross, but you can not wear a hateful symbol like a swastika?

Originally Posted By: janimal
hang on, let me get this straight. so NOT allowing children to wear t-shirts which promote racism is fascism?? where is that covered in 'mein kampf'? or could it be that yowo is chucking around words she doesn't really understand?
1. I'm a male. 2. I understand fascism better than most political systems and ideologies. I was actually kidding about that, but go ahead.

Originally Posted By: P&R Mom
Yowo, with all due respect, you seem to be missing the distinction between having your opinion and foisting an opinion on others. Secondly, stating that you don't like the president is a far cry from wearing a shirt that denigrates an entire religion and is hate-mongering.
I don't really see the distinction at all. So wait, I'm allowed to have an opinion, I just can't tell anyone? What if I don't like the president cuz he's black.

And yes, actually, your thoughts DO become more important when you turn 18 (and even more so when you turn 21). Until then, technically speaking, you are not accorded all the rights (and responsibilities) of adults; you are "in training" to join society.

Really? All of a sudden when I turn 18 my thoughts and opinions matter and become more mature?
As several of us have mentioned, the recent legal concept of hate crimes brings an entirely different perspective on "laissez-faire" concepts of free speech (one that's long overdue, i. m. o.).

A crime should not include speaking.
Originally Posted By: janimal
yowo, with the greatest respect your opinions become more important once you start to know what you are talking about. you still seem to be at the age at which you live under the misapprehension of knowing everything, and in this place you are debating against people who have researched this stuff until their eyes have bled. smile
Shut up, you have no respect for me and that is plain to see. I know I don't know everything, but if knowing that I'm a stupid, mindless American is what you want me to realize, then no thanks. Regardless of anything I'm too young to lose hope. Don't assume that I don't research just because you don't agree with me! There's little to research here. It's a matter of whether or not you should be able to say what you want in a school setting.

Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: IronFront] #382203 08/31/09 09:20 PM
P
P&R Mom
Unregistered
P&R Mom
Unregistered
P
Originally Posted By: yowo
Really? All of a sudden when I turn 18 my thoughts and opinions matter and become more mature?
Yes, or at least more "legitimate" and serious, from the perspective of the American legal system. Try yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater at five years old, then try it again at 18. We hope you have internet access in prison...

Originally Posted By: yowo
Shut up, you have no respect for me and that is plain to see.
Don't you think this is a bit of an overreaction?


Originally Posted By: yowo
It's a matter of whether or not you should be able to say what you want in a school setting.
See, this is where I think we're having the problem. Who, pray tell, is the "you" in your sentence? Nobody has the right to say anything they want in a school setting. Teachers and administrators watch every single word they utter, believe me, nowadays, and students shouldn't be allowed to say "anything," either.

As has been said about a zillion times on this forum, freedom of speech does not mean everyone's allowed to say anything all the time, and if someone steps over societally determined lines, then they have to pay the consequences. Good grief, Yowo, surely you can appreciate the legal and ethical and sociological difference between someone wearing a necklace with a cross on it and someone burning a cross on their neighbor's lawn?

Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: ] #382211 08/31/09 10:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,954
I
IronFront Offline
Soulmate
Offline
Soulmate
I
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,954
Cross - hate to gays.
Burning a cross - hate to Catholics or blacks.

Big difference.

Originally Posted By: P&R Mom
Yes, or at least more "legitimate" and serious, from the perspective of the American legal system. Try yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater at five years old, then try it again at 18. We hope you have internet access in prison...
I didn't speak from the perspective of the American legal system

Don't you think this is a bit of an overreaction?
Not at all

See, this is where I think we're having the problem. Who, pray tell, is the "you" in your sentence? Nobody has the right to say anything they want in a school setting. Teachers and administrators watch every single word they utter, believe me, nowadays, and students shouldn't be allowed to say "anything," either.
Okay, I put that badly

As has been said about a zillion times on this forum, freedom of speech does not mean everyone's allowed to say anything all the time, and if someone steps over societally determined lines, then they have to pay the consequences. Good grief, Yowo, surely you can appreciate the legal and ethical and sociological difference between someone wearing a necklace with a cross on it and someone burning a cross on their neighbor's lawn?
Legal - yes.
sociological - for the most part, yes.
Ethical - no.

Re: Islam is of the Devil [Re: IronFront] #382223 08/31/09 11:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,307
janimal Offline
Tin Star Soulmate
Offline
Tin Star Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,307
laugh


It's All got to go!!!

BudeStrings Music Tuition
Page 7 of 14 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14

Moderated by  Lisa Shea 

Search

Latest Posts
GARDEN FLOWERS
by ronyb - 02/24/21 12:51 PM
Yoga
by chandkumar3g - 02/04/21 02:58 PM
A Scanner Darkly!!
by EVA21SA - 02/01/21 09:45 AM
Policing
by EVA21SA - 01/31/21 08:28 AM
How many bullets?
by EVA21SA - 01/31/21 08:17 AM
Across the River is FREE
by EVA21SA - 01/29/21 09:04 AM
War and Fashion
by EVA21SA - 01/29/21 08:54 AM
Origami flower bouquets
by EVA21SA - 01/28/21 09:05 AM
NBA 2K21 unskippable ads"will probably be repaired
by Dingbest - 01/26/21 01:30 AM
So the jist of this ; Get CCB and recharge chaotic
by Dingbest - 01/26/21 01:29 AM
Privacy Policy
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!
Forum Areas

* General Discussion *



Books, TV, Movies

Da Vinci Code

Dreams

Japanese Culture

Life, Universe, Everything

Online Courses

Politics

Religious Research

Show Your Own Work

Work From Home / Writing


* Parakeets and Pets *



General Parakeet Chat

Keet Stories and Photos

Parakeet Photo Gallery

Budgie Training

Health and Medical Issues

Parakeet Breeding

In Memory Of ...

Non-Budgie Pets and Animals

Non-Budgie Animal Photos

Off-Topic for Keet Owners

Games

Animal Rights

Bird / Animal Books

Subscribe
Forum Guidelines
This forum takes web safety issues very seriously. Please make sure you have read and understood our Forum Guidelines before posting.
Sponsored Link
Support Our Friends
The Animal Rescue Site
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3