From another thread:
'It's not just Genesis, it's the Bible as a whole. The Bible is full of proof of it's divine inspiration. Look it up the Bible is full of prophecy, and instruction that were years ahead of it's time. To me it has proven itself to be the words of God.'
'Name one biblical 'prophecy' that has been objectively 'proved' to be fulfiled.'
As to proven prophecy, the Babylonian captivity, the Assyrian captivity, the Roman occupation, the destructions of the temples, the rebuilding of Jerusalem, the dispersion of the Jews not once but 3 times, the return of the Jews to Israel. All prophecies written several hundred years before they took place.
Were they, though? Does anyone have an original, unaltered document written before these events took place? As far as I’m aware, the oldest known versions of the Old Testament date from round about the time of Jesus….so how do we know that these texts existed in identical form before that?
In any case, the ‘prophecies’ seem a bit vague. Just because they can be interpreted to fit certain events, doesn’t prove that the author had accurate premonitions of those events. For example, Nostradamus wrote some vague verses about a man who would invade Poland and bring about huge conflict and suffering. Some people say that this proves Nostradamus accurately predicted Hitler. Well maybe, but on the other hand, maybe it was just a coincidence. If Nostradamus had said something specific and verifiable, i.e. if he had said “A man called Armstrong will walk on the moon”, then I’d believe he could predict the future.
And it’s the same with the Bible…..some vague ‘prophecies’ that can be interpreted to fit later events….not proof, for me.
The oldest Old Testament documents we have are from around 150BC (Dead Sea Scrolls), and after that they're from around 980AD.
"Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The 5 percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling."
That being said you first have to understand why. The scribes who copied the Old Testament took great pride in their work, and believed it to be the Holy Word of God. As a result alot of fanfare went into copying a manuscript. For instance, each time they copied the word God, they said a prayer asking forgiveness for taking His name in vain. If a letter was out of place or wrong the entire scroll was scrapped. Some scribes memorized whole chapters and could recite them from memory. Scrolls were treated with importance, if one was damaged it was destroyed.
As for the prophecies contained in the old testament I just have to ask, have you read them? They're not as vague as you think, in addition they prove one thing if nothing else, God takes care of Israel. They were booted out not once, twice but three times. The last time they were kicked for well over 1000 years almost 2000, and yet there they are back in Israel. .... the Jews, well they're going back in droves. Not only have they managed to get back their country, but they've pretty much done the impossible. They've kept their identity as a people even after having no home.
Yes, I'm afraid the modern-day Jews sinmply aren't the same group as the Hebrews of old. It might be a nice romantic notion that fits in well with your religious belief, but the Jews haven't 'returned' to Israel. They've invaded a land that didn't belong to them.
Prophecies always come true if they're vague enough. I predict that in the next hundred years there will be war, famine and pestilence. This is likely to come true. It hardly proves me a great prophet. If I said something like 'man will walk on Mars on July 15th 2062' and it actually came true....well, that would be something else.
I just don't see why God would leave room for doubt.
....I haven't read every word of the Old Testament, but I have read of the prophecies Jesus is claimed to have fulfiled.
Two problems, for me: firstly, Jesus knew about the prophecies and therefore could have tried deliberately to 'fulfil' them. Secondly, the guys who wrote the Gospels could have added a few bits to make sure that the story had Jesus 'fulfiling prophecy'.
Hi Joe, I seriously doubt Jesus would have wanted to fulfill the crucifixion especially since the night before his death he prayed to the father to overturn that decision. He did yield his will to his father, but nonetheless he agonized over it.
Jesus fulfilled over 300 OT prophecies. We just fail to acknowledge them.
Blessings,
Emilie
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