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It is a shame in our modern world that anyone feels they have to hide their chosen path in life from family or friends for the fear of being harassed and ostracized. I agree that there isn't a need to antagonize people with a belief. If I am pro-X and my mother is pro-Y I don't bring it up every time we meet and have heated discussions with her about it. But on the other hand, I do not lie if someone asks me about the issue.

There is certainly a grey area in the middle. If someone is at the dinner table espousing their view on X, I feel it's fine to let them have their say without having to jump in on the other side. So if someone is rambling on about universal health care in a way I don't happen to disagree with, I consider it fine to let them have their say and then change the topic. I don't consider that a white lie, I sort of thing of it as a "time and a place for everything". But if the conversation came to me and someone asked "What do you think about that?" I would gently make my point and then swing the conversation.

So in terms of religion, everyone in my family and friends knows how I feel about the issue, and we can discuss it without any issue. So I suppose I am fortunate that I have a group around me that is not fanatical about the issue.


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Originally Posted By: Lisa Shea
So in terms of religion, everyone in my family and friends knows how I feel about the issue, and we can discuss it without any issue. So I suppose I am fortunate that I have a group around me that is not fanatical about the issue.


Nice that you don't live in Jesusland where people get hung for less, boss!


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I agree Lisa. On topics that I have an opinion, but can't refute (politics mainly) I usually just don't say anything. While the whole family is ranting on how terrible Obama is, I've learned throwing in my 2 cents to not be productive but breed dissention.

Likewise, I don't often throw in my comments concerning Jesus. Although granted, it's hard! Sometimes I'm forced to, and sometimes it'd plain be wrong for me to not offer an opinion. Besides, the family looks at me as the pinnacle of theological knowledge, just as they look to my nuclear scientist cousin for opinions regarding physics! It's be certainly wrong for him to not correct a wrong belief.

But, this is more than logic, it's eternal fate in the eyes of most people. It's not opinion, it's a matter Hell of Heaven to such people. So there's an exponential degree of emotion involved.

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Very well stated Niki. When it comes to your eternal sole your family feels they have a vested interest and will take your beliefs more seriously than others.

I will have to say Niki, my brother did discuss his athiest beliefs with family, my mother could not and would not believe that was his belief. This particular discussion with family transends logic.

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I can see that being a possible case. Especially when one's mother raised one as a Christian from conception. My mother prayed for every single day since I was in the womb. She named me after Sarah from the Bible because she believed I'm destined to be "a mother of many." If she refused to believe in my Atheism, I'm sure she'd at least default to the doctrine of "once saved, always saved."

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I have friends out here who I really can't discuss my beliefs with. It's just too difficult to handle the ensuing turmoil and never ending 'witnessing.' So I go along with most conversations and no one bothers to ask me what I actually think on politics and religion.

Like Lisa, I try to turn the topics to anything else but politics and religion. It's hard that so often they seem to go together, out here in FundamentalistRepublicanLand.

I am sure I would fit in much better in New England than here, but I can't deal with winter. So here I am.


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It has never felt like an issue to me.
My Mum is RC, as are most of her relatives.
I am agnostic and I have many, many criticisms of the RC church.
That's just the way it is.
I don't have a problem with anyone knowing how I feel.
It doesn't always go down well, but ...


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I suppose it's also good to keep in mind that - as much as we have troubles in modern times - back a few hundred years ago if you espoused any point of view besides the absolute village mantra you could be slain. Even today there are places on the globe where if you don't follow their exact rules you are physically abused or slain. So that we can even think about talking about different points of view is a great thing that I am very grateful for.

I do agree that it should always be better and that is a goal to strive towards.


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Certainly I am grateful to live in a place, where I am free to believe as I do.


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Originally Posted By: Niki
Hey guys, I just thought some of you my like to hear a story! I've been on here for a while now, and I've changed exponentially from when I first arrived. I might be assuming too much to think anyone cares, but I'll try to make it interesting enough so reading my long post will be enjoyable! =) It'll at least serve for a good reference.

I'm sharing mainly due to the title, my real beginning of change: telling my husband. My beloved is a Christian, I am not. When we were married, and when we first met, we both loved the Lord, as they say, very much. Served in ministry together, did evangelic events together, went to Christian college together, and had all the Christian trimmings in our wedding. Last night, I told him I've accepted Atheism as my life philosophy.

To be honest, it was harder than I thought. I had assumed he some how new. I had also assumed that he was more liberal and agnostic than he actually is, so I thought my change wouldn't bother him that much! I mean, he had enjoyed our secular Atheism class, and agreed that Atheism had a better argument than the Christian rebuttal book they had us read. But I guess through my process of change, I had failed to realize and think, "How would I have felt if he was an atheist when I was a Xtian?"

For those that have read my posts, you'll remember me as a fiery Christian. =) You'll also probably recall when my answers to discussion topics started changing! Well, here I am. Not at the end of a journey, but back to the beginning, the way were were born: without theistic indoctrination. Back to childhood, before I was told "the Truth" was the only truth there was. Before I was flooded with charismatic experiences and fantastical stories of visions, and healings, and miracles. Before my emotions were taken advantage of, before I was lead to believe the only way to be happy was through a relationship with Jesus.

Maybe what I was taught was true! But I choose to find out for myself. To return to the default belief I was born with, empty slate, and build what I find to be truth by reasonable deduction and honest searching. If God be real, my only prayer is for him to understand that I cannot believe in what I cannot substantiate! Faith is unreasonable, for it's based on trusting in what can not be seen, as the Good Word defines it. And I just can't live like that anymore.


But, back to the main plot of this story.

I was terrified. My husband stood there wrinkling a piece of paper he had in his hand for the past 10 minutes. I could tell the upset, and worry from the past few months had come to a climax, and he needed to know where I stood. He told me "I don't know where you stand anymore."

I said, " I don't know what you mean."

Chai, our kitty, was poking her head through the cracked door by now. I swear, she looked like a little girl with a "mommy and daddy's fighting" look on her face. It's amazing how human-like our pets can be sometimes, how they know when somethings wrong, and how they can feel the tension in a room.

"I'm just afraid.. that my biggest fear is actually true." He said.

"What's your biggest fear."

After the longest pause I think we've had yet in our deep conversations, he answered "That you've become an Atheist."

Leaving details out of of conversation, I told him that I was. For a moment, I was terrified that that proclamation was the end of our relationship. He looked torn and devastated, and there was nothing I could do but console him that I would not give up, and share my pain. The ostracizing I feel my church family, the looks of pity, the feeling like I failed everyone who had put faith in me, everyone who had prophesied into my life, everyone who had kids that had looked up to me in church, everyone who had watched the way I worshiped God and looked up to my young fire.

Eventually, sharing my pain, and how hard it was for me to accept completely that I can not believe in fairy tales any longer, got to him. He came over to me, bless his heart, and just held me. He said he loved me, and would support me no matter what. In that moment, sure I felt pitied, and wondered inside if he thought I was doomed for Hell, especially when he expressed a desire for me to turn back eventually and "not give up on God," but I knew he loved me, supported me 100%, and would be behind me every step of the way. =)


So that's my story. My beginning of one life, and end of another. I feel like I could take on the world. It's like coming out of the closet, really, but worse! At least the homosexual is just sinning, and could maybe be forgiven by God if they claim to love him, me, I have turned my back on my savior. But I don't care. I'm out of that closet, and out from hiding, and the only person I care about accepts me! I hope my parents will too, and I'll surely share for those who care how they react, but is the love of my life isn't rejecting me, then I have hope for the world. Hope to change the world even! To change the world from their elitism, from their firm grip on salvation and eternal life, to change them to accept and love everyone for who they are, human.

Thanks for reading.

Sarah


Well, well, Sarah (Niki). Thanks for such an authentic and honest post. I've highlighted the portions which interest me the most.

I, also, "turned away" from "ministry" and "church" and the "gospel." I, also, sought to re-establish just what I believe.

And I, also, have changed. I'm still not sure about my label. And in this post (and a subsequent post in this thread) you have alluded to nuances of definitions of atheism and agnosticism. I don't totally agree (but don't totally disagree, either).

I'm sure about the benevolent interest of an unseen "power" but I'm not sure about the things that I've been taught about the Bible and the "gospel."

I'm pretty comfortable with myself and my "journey." I feel more a part of the world, and appreciate life more, I think. And I'm more likely to see spirituality in "ordinary" things around me.

I, also, don't get into many conversations about "religion" with people unless I hear someone "lording" it over others or judging them, or making assumptions about someone. I am okay with whatever people believe, as I "feel"/"believe" that all these "beliefs" are part of something that we only intuit or partially sense. But what gets me fired up are those who are so certain that only they are "saved" and that all unlike them (or who have not been rescued by them) are lost.

But I don't know that I agree, Sarah, that you are a-theistic, or have to stay that way. If theism is "god-talk," then maybe you don't have any yet. Maybe you'll never have. But maybe your journey will develop some. I think mine has. Baby talk, maybe, but I "feel" spiritual (without the rituals).

As for a partner supporting you, it's good that your mate is doing so as best he can. My wife describes herself as pagan, and that may be true in part, but it is also reaction in part from how she was treated "in the church." She definitely would not want to be married to a "preacher."

However, she has seen the way that others on spiritual journeys are either drawn to talk to me, or perhaps I am drawn to talk to them, or perhaps we have divine appointments. And she seems to be okay with that. I think it helps that I am pretty open and encompassing in talking about God. I don't talk about rules about what one should do or not do, or believe or not believe, but rather that each person has his or her own path.

To wrap up, Sarah/Niki, I applaud your beginning of change. I'm sure your journey will be uniquely yours.


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