Lisa Shea

Roman Polanski Arrest

Posted By: PDM

Roman Polanski Arrest - 09/28/09 05:34 PM

Roman Polanski, the somewhat notorious 76-year-old French-Polish Film director, has been arrested in Zurich, for extradition to the USA.

His crime? ~ Unlawful sex with a thirteen-year-old girl, back in 1977 ~ when he was about 32.

He admitted to the crime, but fled abroad, while out on bail, never to return ~ or so he intended.
If he heard that a country might extradite him, he didn't go there ~ until he was offered 'a lifetime achievement award', to be presented in Switzerland.

Meanwhile ~ apparently ~ the girl sued Polanski, and they came to an agreement, which resulted in her deciding to drop charges.

But, in the USA, prosecutors still want him to be sentenced. He faced the possibility of life imprisonment.

How are people reacting to this arrest?
Quote:
'A petition has been signed by film-makers and actors ... expressing dismay at Mr Polanski's arrest.'

'Other Hollywood luminaries .. have called for Mr Polanski's release.'

'Politicians and Hollywood heavyweights have rallied behind director Roman Polanski following his arrest.'

'French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner called the detention of the film-maker - a French citizen - in Switzerland a "bit sinister".'

'British novelist Robert Harris described the arrest as "disgusting treatment".'

'.. "Switzerland let a guest walk into a nasty trap. We should be ashamed," said tabloid newspaper, Blick.'



Quotes from here ~ also full story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8279466.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8277886.stm

What do you think about all this?
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 09/28/09 06:17 PM

Not sure. Part of me thinks this is a witch hunt for old crimes and the other part thinks that he should be punished for his old crimes.
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/01/09 12:12 AM

She was 13; he was 32.
He knew what he was doing and that it was wrong.

Just because years have passed by, doesn't make it any less wrong.
Posted By: BijousMom85

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/01/09 01:46 AM

She dropped the charges. I don't think he should be charged, but that's just me.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/01/09 02:08 AM

Originally Posted By: PDM
Just because years have passed by, doesn't make it any less wrong.
Yes...and the fact that he ran off and enjoyed a career & life elsewhere doesn't erase his ethical and legal debt. If anything, it's salt in the wound.

I don't understand how she dropped the charges. Minors can't make the decision; the law is what it is.

Not to veer off-topic but this reminds me a bit of Woody Allen. He became sexually involved with a girl who was raised as his daughter, and Hollywood didn't bat an eyelash. It may not have been illegal, once she was of age, but it's still creepy and wrong, i. m. o.
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/01/09 02:47 AM

There were no blood relations between Woody and his daughter and they were of legal age.
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/01/09 01:16 PM

Originally Posted By: P&R Mom
.... the law is what it is.

That's what I would have thought ~ and it seems that this is the line being taken here.

Originally Posted By: P&R Mom
Not to veer off-topic but this reminds me a bit of Woody Allen. He became sexually involved with a girl who was raised as his daughter, and Hollywood didn't bat an eyelash. It may not have been illegal, once she was of age, but it's still creepy and wrong, i. m. o.
I agree ~ not illegal, but was it moral???
Posted By: Berzelmayr

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/01/09 02:03 PM

Like IronFront said this Korean girl was never Woody Allen's daughter, not even in an adopted kind of way. She belonged to Mia Farrow's earlier marriage with André Previn, both adopted her in 1978.
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/02/09 11:36 PM

Here are a few quotes on this subject from Stephen Glover of The Daily Mail.

'A paedophile photograph... Polanski... why on earth does the arts world think it is immune from morality?' ~ By Stephen Glover, daily Mail, 1st October 2009

'There will be outraged cries of censorship after the removal of a photograph of the actress Brooke Shields, taken when she was ... ten, from an exhibition at the Tate Modern museum in London ....'

'Police advised the gallery ... that the picture could break obscenity laws.'

'... if a paedophile were caught downloading the very same picture he would almost certainly be in serious trouble.'

'Not surprisingly, in 1981 the actress tried to buy back the negatives ....'

'Meanwhile in New York, Paris and London members of the 'artistic community' are decrying the arrest .. of ... Roman Polanski ...'

'Polanski drugged, and then sodomised, a 13-year-old girl ...'

'... One may reasonably surmise that if he were not a world-famous .. film director, but a dirty old man ... who had virtually raped a 13-year-old girl 32 years ago, sympathy would be less widespread.'

'Drugging and sodomising a 13-year-old girl is not a peccadillo that can be discounted. ....'

'As Polanski's brutal seduction of a young girl is overridden, even negated, by his supposed status as a great artist, so the provocatively sexual picture of a minor will doubtless be celebrated .....'

'It is as though art and artists occupy a different moral sphere to the rest of us.'


Full article here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/articl...e-morality.html
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/03/09 08:34 PM

Brooke Shields is just kinda like "Yo, dawg. I's ova it, xxxxxxxxxxx. This xxxxxxxxxx made a mistake let da xxxxxxxx go". This is not an exact quote, btw.

[Warning: Inappropriate language can lead to a ban ~ PDM]
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/03/09 09:46 PM

No need for that term, IronFront, but I bet you know that...
Posted By: BijousMom85

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/03/09 11:51 PM

IronFront, why is it that every time I read a post of yours it is something negative and unhelpful? I believe this board is for people over the age of 13 and you don't seem to be above that age. If you are, you are acting very immaturely.
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 12:06 AM

IronFront

I do not want to see any more of your inappropriate & offensive comments on this forum.

Please respect your fellow forum members.

Thank you.
Posted By: Coco's Mama

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 03:59 AM

If someone tries to kill you but you survive, are they charged with attempted murder even if you say it's okay I forgive them. I do believe that is how the justice system is set up.

So years have passed, it's unfortunate, but does not negate the crime.I wonder if any more victims will come forward now that this has come to light, how many one time only pedophiles are there?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 06:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Coco's Mama
I wonder if any more victims will come forward now that this has come to light, how many one time only pedophiles are there?
Interesting, & good question!
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 06:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Coco's Mama
If someone tries to kill you but you survive, are they charged with attempted murder even if you say, "It's okay I forgive them"? I do believe that is how the justice system is set up.

So years have passed, it's unfortunate, but does not negate the crime. I wonder if any more victims will come forward now that this has come to light, how many "one time only" pedophiles are there?
Fix'd cuz bad grammar is bad.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 07:34 PM

That's my personal "last straw," IronFront, and I hope it is for PDM. You have no right whatsoever to alter someone else's post for any reason. Coco's Mama is older, wiser, and far more educated than you. She deserves your respect, regardless of how fast she typed or the fact that you don't grasp the concept of informal communication.

Many of us have been very patient with your "bad boy" nonsense lately but this is unacceptable (to me and, no doubt, to others).
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 07:52 PM

IronFront / Yowo has already been warned privately.

I am hereby warning him publicly.

IronFront, I feel that you are testing us ~ or trying to.

You have already been told that, if you had not been a long-term member, you would have been banned, some time ago, for deliberately stirring up the forum for no good reason, other than your own entertainment. This is what people term 'a troll'.

For now, you will be banned for one week, to give you time to decide how you will behave when you return. We shall then take it from there.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 08:07 PM

Many thanks, PDM.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 08:11 PM

coco --

yes the person would be charged with attempted murder in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree depending on the reasons and if it was premeditated and what weapon was used.

Even if you forgive them and do not wish to press charges, the state would press charges anyway and hand out punishment. They may even subpeana (sp?) you to testify.

like when families have forgiven people of the crime they committed and they are still executed for it.

smile

guilty is guilty and thats that
Posted By: **mattie**

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By: PDM
IronFront / Yowo has altready been warned privately.

I am hereby warning him publicly.

IronFront, I feel that you are testing us ~ or trying to.

You have already been told that, if you had not been a long-term member, you would have been banned, some time ago, for deliberately stirring up the forum for no good reason, other than your own entertainment. This is what people term 'a troll'.

For now, you will be banned for one week, to give you time to decide how you will behave when you return. We shall then take it from there.



Thank you PDM.
That language was very rude.
Posted By: Coco's Mama

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 09:06 PM

Originally Posted By: *helwa*
coco --

yes the person would be charged with attempted murder in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree depending on the reasons and if it was premeditated and what weapon was used.

Even if you forgive them and do not wish to press charges, the state would press charges anyway and hand out punishment. They may even subpeana (sp?) you to testify.

like when families have forgiven people of the crime they committed and they are still executed for it.

smile

guilty is guilty and thats that


I am in agreement so then it would follow that he should be arrested as innocent until proven guilty.
Posted By: BijousMom85

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 09:57 PM

Thanks PDM, I am glad to see that soon we won't have to put up with the offensive and "troll"ish comments of "yowo/Ironfront" any more.
Posted By: Cetan

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/04/09 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Coco's Mama
Originally Posted By: *helwa*
coco --

yes the person would be charged with attempted murder in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree depending on the reasons and if it was premeditated and what weapon was used.

Even if you forgive them and do not wish to press charges, the state would press charges anyway and hand out punishment. They may even subpeana (sp?) you to testify.

like when families have forgiven people of the crime they committed and they are still executed for it.

smile

guilty is guilty and thats that


I am in agreement so then it would follow that he should be arrested as innocent until proven guilty.


I am not sure - was he cinvicted and fled while awaiting sentencing or while awaiting trial? And is there a statute of limitations on the crime? I know that there is no statute of limitations on murder but there is on other crimes. I am just asking
Posted By: skipperdog

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/05/09 06:43 PM

He deserves punishment for the crime and for being a coward and refusing to be accountable for it. The child was 13 years old. That is statutory rape, and assault (administering drugs), among other things.

If someone did that to one of my boys, I don't care how long passed between the crime and the punishment, or if my son accepted what amounts to a bribe to drop the charges, I would want them punished.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/05/09 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Cetan
I am not sure - was he cinvicted and fled while awaiting sentencing or while awaiting trial? And is there a statute of limitations on the crime?
Ditto... Maybe there's no statute of limitations on a crime if they go to make the arrest and the person flees, so the case is still open?
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/05/09 09:27 PM

Some quotes from that BBC item ~ do they clarify anything?

Quote:
Polanski was initially indicted on six counts and faced up to life in prison.

US prosecutors want Mr Polanski to face sentencing

He pleaded guilty at the time but then fled abroad.

'.. he claimed misconduct by the judge, now deceased, who had arranged a plea bargain and then reneged on it.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8279466.stm
Posted By: LoRaXspeek4keets

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/07/09 10:24 PM

the statute of limitations is suspended in roman polanski's case because he pleaded guilty and then fled. once you flee, it already suspends your right to the statue of limitations, but since he pleaded guilty and THEN fled, his statue of limitations is suspended
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/11/09 09:57 PM

Just saying, I don't blame him for fleeing.
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/12/09 07:55 AM

Well, I suppose I don't blame him for wanting to escape his punishment, but I do blame him for bringing that punishment upon himself, by abusing a child.
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/27/09 12:13 AM

Quote:
'Polanski victim seeks dismissal' ~ Monday, 26 October 2009

'The victim of the sexual assault committed by Roman Polanski has called for charges against the film director to be dismissed ...'

'She had suffered health problems after being hounded by the media following Polanski's arrest last month ....'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8327120.stm
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/27/09 12:48 AM

I can't see what good it's doing to throw him in jail if the victim doesn't want him thrown in jail.
Posted By: Coco's Mama

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/27/09 03:33 AM

It's called justice, and protecting the public i would think.
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/27/09 07:02 PM

Justice for who?
Posted By: janimal

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/27/09 09:05 PM

society.
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/27/09 11:56 PM

Why does society need justice?
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/28/09 01:16 AM

Perhaps total chaos would be better?
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/28/09 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: PDM
Perhaps total chaos would be better?
No.

Polanski isn't likely to do this again. If the victim doesn't want to punish him for his crimes against her, I don't see why we should.
Posted By: Coco's Mama

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/28/09 09:43 PM

I think re offending with this type of crime has been said to be high in numbers? I also wonder was this the first offense?

So def. justice should be served.
Posted By: LoRaXspeek4keets

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/28/09 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: IronFront
Originally Posted By: PDM
Perhaps total chaos would be better?
No.

Polanski isn't likely to do this again. If the victim doesn't want to punish him for his crimes against her, I don't see why we should.


Polanski is a pedophile. He is all but guaranteed to commit the same crime again. I wouldn't be so sure that he hasn't, and just got away with it. Pedophilia is an illness, and the problem with pedophiles is that once they get a taste of it, they almost always do it again.
Posted By: janimal

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/29/09 01:31 AM

i don't think paedophilia is an illness, its a choice and a crime. if it weren't, paedophiles would be blameless, which i don't believe for one minute.
Posted By: LoRaXspeek4keets

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/29/09 02:39 AM

nope--it is actually a mental illness. it's classified in the DSM IV.

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/explaining-pedophilia

and the fact that it is, in fact, a mental illness doesn't mean that pedophiles who act on their urges are blameless--one may have the unnatural urge to have a sexual relationship with a minor, but one doesn't have to act on it.

it works the same way as other mental illnesses: a sociopath may not understand human emotion as others do, but they don't have to commit murder.
Posted By: janimal

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/29/09 08:59 AM

i know what the classification is (my 2nd wife was a sociologist - silly discipline), but i think its plain wrong and apologetic. being a paodophile makes you a callous, calculating individual with a need for power over their victims, with a choice over right and wrong. i do not believe it makes them ill, and i do not think its helpful to call paedophilia an illness.

paedophilia is well known to have been widespread in ancient greece and rome. was that cultural, or and epidemic? personally i think it was cultural, and we have since come to realise that it is wrong, much like neutering of people and wifebeating.

i've heard the sociopath argument before - how then do you diagnose a sociopath who has not offended? there is no illness without symptoms.

other conditions which are in my opinion completely wrongly classified as illnesses are alcoholism, drug addiction and depression. there are times when medical science and psychology should butt out and realise that sometimes people aren't very nice and they make bad choices.
Posted By: LoRaXspeek4keets

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/29/09 04:32 PM

I'm not understanding why you think classifying pedophilia as a mental illness is apologetic. It doesn't make the crime any less wrong. In fact, it's what makes a pedophile one of the most dangerous offenders out there--the fact that it is a mental illness makes them more likely to repeat their offense, if they've acted on their urges, which was my original point.

Pedophilia was indeed wide-spread in ancient Rome and Greece, but now you're entering into cultural psychology, which is not applicable in this case. Roman Polanski did not grow up in ancient Rome or ancient Greece. He grew up in modern Western culture, which strongly emphasizes early on that children are children, and they are not to be sexualized. Other cultures are not so firm on this, but Western culture is. He committed his crime in the United States, which takes a firm stance on not engaging in sexual behavior with children.

There are several symptoms you can identify in a sociopath who hasn't committed an offense, just as there are plenty of symptoms you can identify in a pedophile, even if they haven't abused anyone. One is isolation--pedophiles often feel that they can't relate to people their own age. Another is good interpersonal skills only with children. Pedophiles, like sociopaths, tend to be very attractive to their victims.

Probably the most obvious symptom of pedophilia is having intense, consistent fantasies involving a prepubescent child, usually about thirteen years old or younger. Usually, they last about six months, and either cause clinically significant distress/social impairment, or the phenomenon of rationalization, which makes it even more dangerous.

There are also plenty of identifiable symptoms of sociopathism which can be caught before the person has committed an offense, but we're not talking about sociopaths, so I won't list them. You said that "being a paodophile makes you a callous, calculating individual with a need for power over their victims, with a choice over right and wrong," and that is true. A pedophile is a sick individual. This does not mean sick in the sense that one is deserving of pity, but it does make them very dangerous, because nothing really cures pedophilia except prevention. Once the crime has been committed, the individual is highly likely to commit it again.

Alcoholism, drug addiction and depression are inarguably illnesses. That doesn't mean that there are no bad choices involved, but you can have an addictive personality, which makes you more likely to develop the disease. And I'm sorry, but I'm actually pretty offended by what you have to say about depression--so someone who is depressed isn't "very nice" and has made "bad choices?"?

You can actually see all of these mental illnesses on the brain. Certain things go on chemically, which we can't help. There is, of course, always an aspect of it that involves an individual's decision-making and character (which, by the way, is part of psychology), but that's only half of the picture.

You said that "there are times when medical science and psychology should butt out and realise that sometimes people aren't very nice and they make bad choices," but science and realizing that "sometimes people aren't very nice and they make bad choices" aren't mutually exclusive. The bottom line is, referring to pedophilia as an illness is a fact, and that doesn't make the crime any less awful. If anything, it gives it even more of an edge because, as I said, it makes it more likely that they will act again.
Posted By: IronFront

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/29/09 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: janimal

other conditions which are in my opinion completely wrongly classified as illnesses are alcoholism, drug addiction and depression. there are times when medical science and psychology should butt out and realise that sometimes people aren't very nice and they make bad choices.
I read that depression is the result of a lack of certain chemicals to the brain.
Posted By: Coco's Mama

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/29/09 10:39 PM

Thank you LoRaXspeek4keets,

On behalf of anyone who has suffered themselves or has had a family member suffer from depression, it is not a choice and no they cannot just "pull up their socks" and be happy any more than someone with diabetes can try really really hard to make insulin.

That is probably the saddest comment I have ever read on this forum and there have been a few zingers.

Btw nice to see you around on the forum, how is Nene doing? PM me!!
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/30/09 12:23 AM

Originally Posted By: janimal
..... being a paodophile makes you a callous, calculating individual ..... i do not believe it makes them ill, and i do not think its helpful to call paedophilia an illness.
.......
other conditions which are in my opinion completely wrongly classified as illnesses are alcoholism, drug addiction and depression. .....

Originally Posted By: IronFront
....I read that depression is the result of a lack of certain chemicals to the brain.


This is going off topic, so I have started a new thread:

Illnesses?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=387417
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/30/09 12:53 AM

Originally Posted By: LoRaXspeek4keets
..... Probably the most obvious symptom of pedophilia is having intense, consistent fantasies involving a prepubescent child, usually about thirteen years old or younger. ....


The thing is, many 13 year olds are not pre-pubescent.
Many are sexually actively.
A few are parents.
In some societies they would be / would have been considered old enough for marriage.

I am not entirely convinced that sex with a sexually mature (and possibly sexually active) girl ~ even if she is under the age of consent, is genuine paedophilia.

I'm certyainly not saying that it isn't immoral.

If he knew her age ~ and drugged her for sex ~ then he knew that he was doing wrong. And he may even be a paedophile, of course. But it is odd that the woman does not want to proceed with this, and I do wonder what really went on.

I know of men, who have been convinced, by girls, that they were over 18, when they were not. And the men have got into legal trouble because of it.

How are the men to know?
How many people could be certain how old a teenage girl is?
Some 13 years old look 20; some 20 year olds look 13.
Posted By: LoRaXspeek4keets

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/30/09 01:23 AM

The most important part about that is the fantasies of a prepubescent child. That's it. It doesn't matter if she's 13 or 6. It is pedophilia. In this society. Which is the context in which he committed the crime.
Posted By: PDM

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/30/09 01:53 AM

I'll start a new thread on paedophilia and the age of consent.
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=387431
Posted By: Berzelmayr

Re: Roman Polanski Arrest - 10/30/09 07:04 AM

[quote=LoRaXspeek4keets]Pedophilia was indeed wide-spread in ancient Rome and Greece, but now you're entering into cultural psychology, which is not applicable in this case. Roman Polanski did not grow up in ancient Rome or ancient Greece.[/quote] [i]Pederasty[/i]. A man, who was attracted to young males that weren't prepubescent kids anymore on the one hand and not young men over 18/20 on the other, was called "paiderastes" in ancient Hellas. This other term (pedophilia) hasn't that long history, similar like "homosexual" - in the 1800s many people simply called every male individual "a pederast", if he had sex with another male (that's why in the French language a word like "pédé" still exists - it has the same meaning as "fag/queer" in English).
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