LisaShea Forum Logo
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Witches #79261 03/31/05 02:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
PDM Offline OP
True Blue Soulmate
OP Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
Member 'Pink' quoted this from The Da Vinci Code (09.02.05)

"The Catholic Inquisition published the book that arguably could be called the most blood-soaked publication in human history. Malleus Maleficarum - or The Witches Hammer - indoctrinated the world to 'the dangers of freethinking women' and instructed the clergy how to locate, torture and destroy them. Those deemed 'witches' by the Church included all female herb scholars, priestesses, gypsies, mystics, nature lovers, and any women 'suspiciously attuned to the natural world'. Midwives also were killed for their heretical practice of using medical knowledge to ease the pain of childbirth - a suffering, the Church claimed, that was God's rightful punishment for Eve's partaking of the Apple of Knowledge, thus giving birth to the idea of Original Sin. During three hundred years of witch hunts, the Church burned at the stake an astounding five million women."
[quoted from Pink 090205 (http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000061#000011)]

Apparently, this figure is a gross exaggeration.

However, Meredith comments (http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000199)

"I'd also like to point out that in "Women in the Church", where many users posted comments and questions, several people seemed to think the claim of 5 million witch burnings unrealistic. Consequently I have done research on the European witch hunts,trials, and burnings, and while certainly no expert, I'd like to remind people that the "Burning Times" spanned over 200 years and all across Europe, and that all the information I collaborated agreed that there were millions of people (men and women, though the majority were women) that were killed for being 'witches'"

I'd be interested to know more about this.


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: Witches #79262 03/31/05 05:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 128
S
SchoolyD Offline
Companion
Offline
Companion
S
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 128
Wikipedia (my quick reference for everything) says the book "Malleus Maleficarum," published in 1487, "was in fact condemned by the Inquisition in 1490, and never officially used by the Catholic Church."

Wikipedia also says: "The term ['The burning times'] was adopted by various American feminist historians and popularised in the 1970s for all historical persecution of witches and pagans, often citing a figure of nine million casualties, drawn from nineteenth century campaigner for women's rights, Matilda Joslyn Gage. They also referred to it as the Women's Holocaust (see Hutton chapter 18 for his exploration of their ideas). Modern historians have shown that the victims of the witchhunt were not always female, though they were in the majority and misogyny was an important part of the forces behind it. In Iceland, for example, 80% of those accused were men. Generally accepted figures amongst historians today range from Levack at around 60,000 to Hutton at around 40,000."

Re: Witches #79263 04/01/05 10:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,949
Lisa Shea Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,949
Right, those are the numbers I've seen. There simply weren't that many people around in the earlier days in history. Our population has really skyrocketed in recent times. Also, the church as said killed both men and women - and most were not burned. So females burned was only a portion of those figures.


Lisa Shea, Owner
Re: Witches #79264 01/25/07 09:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
PDM Offline OP
True Blue Soulmate
OP Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
Quote
Originally posted by say_miss_polli:
Hello.
I’m not sure where to post this, so after some considerations decided to put it up here, I am writing this as a personal opinion about your Women in Church (Engraving of witch being apprehended) article.
We do know that alleged witches were burned alive or hung over a five century interval -- from the 14th to the 18th century -- the vast majority was tried from 1550 to 1650. So in all that time people lived in fear of death which by all means should’ve be taken into the account. I’m not quite sure why you stress the number of 50,000 (-100,000) since you have clearly made everyone understand that this book is the work of fiction not truth..
I am Russian and although many countries in Europe largely escaped the burning times: Ireland executed only four witches, Russia only ten, (the craze affected mostly Switzerland, Germany and France), my ancestors were petrified of churches’ doings and their will to destroy for the sake of power attainment, gaining of control.
You said that both men and women were slain in those times, its all true, however only a substantial minority of victims -- about 25% -- were male.
I am a hereditary witch, and am very passionate about this topic due to the obvious reasons - I say let the man write, let him exadurate a little, let it be a point of time when people shocked by the big number in the book start doing their own research on the topic, and see that even though it was on the high side – it was spot on about the past bloodthirsty nature of the church!


vinum sabbati


http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-...pic&f=6&t=000002&p=32#000480



"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: Witches #79265 01/25/07 09:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
PDM Offline OP
True Blue Soulmate
OP Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
Lisa's page on Women in the Church
http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/art/women.html

Some relevant threads:

Topic: early church vs women

Quote
Originally posted by jawseybruce, October 18, 2005 :
It would seem that there are those who do not believe that the church in fact burned at the stake or in other ways did in with about five million women and men for that matter in the course of about 200 years. I am not sure why, but even the church it’s self had admitted to this fact. In the early attempts to “convert” Pagans to Christianity this was a common practice, perhaps those who don’t think so could shed some light on this for me as to what historical facts or documents they have showing other wise and I will be glad to submit a long list of bibliographies that document just the opposite.
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000319#000000


Topic: the sacred feminine & the church
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000061#000011

Topic: is everything black and white as they say??
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000175#000006


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: Witches #79266 01/25/07 09:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
PDM Offline OP
True Blue Soulmate
OP Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
Quote
Originally posted by say_miss_polli:
Hello.
.. I am writing this as a personal opinion about your Women in Church ... article.


Hi.
Here's the quote:
'Probably one of the most wild statements in the entire book - Brown claims that 5 million women were burned at the stake by the church. I'm female and very much in support of women's rights, but even so, only maybe 50,000 men AND women were slain during those times - and most weren't burned.' [Lisa Shea]

http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/art/women.html



We do know that alleged witches were burned alive or hung over a five century interval -- from the 14th to the 18th century -- the vast majority was tried from 1550 to 1650. So in all that time people lived in fear of death which by all means should’ve be taken into the account.

Certainly, but Dan Brown doesn't keep to the facts ~ his research is very superficial.

I’m not quite sure why you stress the number of 50,000 (-100,000) since you have clearly made everyone understand that this book is the work of fiction not truth..

Well, I'm not sure where the figures come from, which is bad since I have a degree in Medieval & Modern history.

The point is, and this is what Lisa stresses, Dan Brown himself, though calling this book a work of fiction, states or implies that all the apparently factual information given, is correct.

You said that both men and women were slain in those times, its all true, however only a substantial minority of victims -- about 25% -- were male.

It's worth pointing this out, though, since I'm guessing that most people would think that only women were involved in this particular horror.

I am a hereditary witch, and am very passionate about this topic due to the obvious reasons - I say let the man write, let him exadurate a little, let it be a point of time when people shocked by the big number in the book start doing their own research on the topic, and see that even though it was on the high side – it was spot on about the past bloodthirsty nature of the church!

vinum sabbati


Don't you think, though, that if he gives supposedly factual information, and then readers find that it is flawed, then they may not believe him at all.

Apart from entertaining us with an exciting story, the one thing that Dan Brown has done is get people interested in historical & theological matters.

Lisa states regularly that people should do their own research on the subjects brought up by Brown.

I, too, say the same thing. Check things out. Don't just believe everything that authors write, but use their comments to further one's own education.


http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-...pic&f=6&t=000002&p=32#000480


Welcome to the forum. smile


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: Witches #79267 01/29/07 05:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 44
S
santino Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 44
the evolution of the church. :p


...a man is getting along on the road to wisdom when he begins to realize that his opinion is just an opinion...
Re: Witches #79268 01/29/07 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
PDM Offline OP
True Blue Soulmate
OP Offline
True Blue Soulmate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,790
Quote
Originally posted by santino:
the evolution of the church. :p
Care to expand??? confused


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

Moderated by  Lisa Shea 

Search

Latest Posts
Privacy Policy
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!
Forum Areas

* General Discussion *



Books, TV, Movies

Da Vinci Code

Dreams

Japanese Culture

Life, Universe, Everything

Online Courses

Politics

Religious Research

Show Your Own Work

Work From Home / Writing


* Parakeets and Pets *



General Parakeet Chat

Keet Stories and Photos

Parakeet Photo Gallery

Budgie Training

Health and Medical Issues

Parakeet Breeding

In Memory Of ...

Non-Budgie Pets and Animals

Non-Budgie Animal Photos

Off-Topic for Keet Owners

Games

Animal Rights

Bird / Animal Books

Subscribe
Forum Guidelines
This forum takes web safety issues very seriously. Please make sure you have read and understood our Forum Guidelines before posting.
Sponsored Link
Support Our Friends
The Animal Rescue Site
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3