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Re: The Hand and The Knife #76652 01/24/07 05:22 AM
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Jonathan Offline
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I have looked very closely at the "hand/knife" scene and it looks to me like if you removed Judas? from this scene you would see a whole other person behind him. It looks like the hand on Mary's shoulder and the hand with the knife belong to the same person and this person is being shoved down by Peter?. This means you can't see the person's head, just the hands. Sort of like someone being shoved backwards and the automatic reaction would be to reach forward. This would also account for there only being 11 disciple and Mary. The 12th disciple is hidden from view behind Judas?. Just a thought. I noted that a few others share this idea. I am like a lot of you in that I don't have a solid answer either. But it sure is fun to explore!

I do believe that the person sitting next to Jesus is Mary Magdelene. The feminine look is way too prominent. Since I am new to all this I have a question that has probably already been answered somewhere in this jungle of posts but I just haven't found it yet: How do you know who is who? I mean, of course Jesus is at the center, but how can we be able to tell which disciple is which? Remember, I am completely new to this whole thing. I just watched the movie last night and never thought of any of this before. As a matter of fact, I have this same picture in my room and have looked at it every day for 13 years and I never noticed the knife! Anyway, thanks for a great forum.
Jonathan

Re: The Hand and The Knife #76653 01/24/07 01:05 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Jonathan:
... I am like a lot of you in that I don't have a solid answer either. But it sure is fun to explore!

Yes, it is, and regardless of whether or not any of us come up with the right answer, at least we are seeking.

Welcome to the forum! smile

I do believe that the person sitting next to Jesus is Mary Magdelene. The feminine look is way too prominent.

Fair enough ~ something else that it is difficult to be sure of, I think.

...How do you know who is who? ....Jonathan

I think Leonardo made some annotated sketches ~ not sure of the details.

For us, Lisa has provided the info:
'Names of Apostles in The Last Supper'
http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/art/names.html


See:
Topic: Lisa's Info Pages & 'Last Supper' Links
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000263


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: The Hand and The Knife #76654 01/24/07 05:57 PM
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sketch56 Offline
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I have brought this up before and I shall again.
I believe that the figure in the last supper to the right of Christ is not John or Mary Magdelene but one of "Mary" the mother of Christ,the true blood line.
Yes people will say that the youth of her is to youg,but the youth of her also shows a divine youth, and if you compare ages then the youth of Mary and Christ when he dies makes even more sence.There are many woman in life that look this young with a son of this age.Adevine look of youth Mary mother of Christ.
http://www.lionardofromvinci.com


The painter who darws merely by practice and by eye, without reason, is like a mirror which copies everything placed in front of it without being concious of their existence.
Re: The Hand and The Knife #76655 01/24/07 06:01 PM
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sketch56 Offline
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I also believe the hands shown by each person in the Last Supper represent a code of numbers to writings in the Bible.
http://www.lionardofromvinci.com/arnovalley.html


The painter who darws merely by practice and by eye, without reason, is like a mirror which copies everything placed in front of it without being concious of their existence.
Re: The Hand and The Knife #76656 01/24/07 11:47 PM
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say_miss_polli Offline
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Hello.
I’m not sure where to post this, so after some considerations decided to put it up here, I am writing this as a personal opinion about your Women in Church (Engraving of witch being apprehended) article.
We do know that alleged witches were burned alive or hung over a five century interval -- from the 14th to the 18th century -- the vast majority was tried from 1550 to 1650. So in all that time people lived in fear of death which by all means should’ve be taken into the account. I’m not quite sure why you stress the number of 50,000 (-100,000) since you have clearly made everyone understand that this book is the work of fiction not truth..
I am Russian and although many countries in Europe largely escaped the burning times: Ireland executed only four witches, Russia only ten, (the craze affected mostly Switzerland, Germany and France), my ancestors were petrified of churches’ doings and their will to destroy for the sake of power attainment, gaining of control.
You said that both men and women were slain in those times, its all true, however only a substantial minority of victims -- about 25% -- were male.
I am a hereditary witch, and am very passionate about this topic due to the obvious reasons - I say let the man write, let him exadurate a little, let it be a point of time when people shocked by the big number in the book start doing their own research on the topic, and see that even though it was on the high side – it was spot on about the past bloodthirsty nature of the church!


vinum sabbati


Life is a train of moods like a string of beads & as we pass though them they prove to be many colored lenses which print the world their own hue & each shows only what lies in its focus - Emerson
Re: The Hand and The Knife #76657 01/25/07 12:21 AM
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sketch56 Offline
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WHAT??????????????????????? WRONG ROOM!!!!!


The painter who darws merely by practice and by eye, without reason, is like a mirror which copies everything placed in front of it without being concious of their existence.
Re: The Hand and The Knife #76658 01/25/07 09:27 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by say_miss_polli:
Hello.
I’m not sure where to post this, so after some considerations decided to put it up here, I am writing this as a personal opinion about your Women in Church (Engraving of witch being apprehended) article.
...
Hi and welcome say_miss_polli.

As a new member, may I please ask you to read all rules & guidelines, If you have not already done so. Thank you.

All threads must be kept on topic and this one is about 'the hand and the knife' in Leonardo's painting of 'The Last Supper'.

If you wish to discuss a subject, and cannot find a suitable existing thread, then go to the top of the main page for your chosen subject area, and click on 'New Topic'.

See:
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=6

If you want to find a relevant thread, then click on the 'search' option.

If you are referring back to something that someone else has posted, or to one of Lisa's articles (or, indeed, to any other web page) please give the page reference and, where necessary, a brief quote. Thank you. smile

Lisa's page on Women in the Church
http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/art/women.html

I am going to add your post to our thread: 'Witches'. I hope that this is ok for you.

http://www.wineintro.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000205#000000


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: The Hand and The Knife #76659 01/25/07 09:30 AM
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OK ~

Now back to Leonardo's 'Last Supper', that hand & that knife!!

After 32 pages, is there anything left to say!!??


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: The Hand and The Knife [Re: PDM] #160161 03/13/07 03:10 PM
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Orginally posted by catnip:

'is the knife from Judas back, or pointing at James?
Maybe Judas was innocent and James the true betrayer'


http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=160101&page=1#Post160101


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: The Hand and The Knife [Re: Jonathan] #163064 03/24/07 12:32 PM
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pete186 Offline
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I agree there is a hidden person behind Judas. The hand in front of Judas reaching for the bread and the hand holding the knife are from this hidden person. If I reach for something I'm usually looking at it. Note the skin tone on the hand in front of Judas as well. I think this was davinci's way of including Mary.

Last edited by pete186; 03/24/07 12:34 PM.
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