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Re: gun control [Re: janimal] #426079 02/09/13 07:24 AM
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tessboss Offline
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Geez dude, you must have a hard time making or keeping any friends at all. You are free to believe anything you want, but it doesn't make it correct. What happened to the Indians, the slaves wasn't right by any standards but not all people should be lumped together. There is more to this country than a few.

What was the name of the grocery store back then?

Re: gun control [Re: janimal] #426080 02/09/13 10:42 AM
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janimal Offline OP
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ok, so because i don't share your misinformed opinions i must have a hard time making friends? it gives me a headache just thinking down to that kind of level.

the first american settlers left europe because their beliefs were too extreme to fit into the satus quo. fact.

the land was stolen from the indians who were subject to one of if not the greatest genocide in human history. this too is an irrefutable fact.

americas wealth as a fledgling nation came from slave labour, as did the wealth of the british empire. another FACT.

it is therefore no great leap to realise that the 2nd amendment was put in place to protect slavery which america later fought a civil war over (along other factors like federal currency).

i never claimed that these things sum up each and every american, but like it or not it is the foundation of your country. and like it or not this happens to be something i am quite well informed over.

i'm sorry if these things do not fit with your cosy view of your countrys history, but thats not my problem. if you can't have an intelligent conversation about it without acting like a five year old then kindly stick your head back up your butt and quit wasting my time. and what grocery store??? you know what, i don't even give a crap. keep your witticisms to yourself.


It's All got to go!!!

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Re: gun control [Re: janimal] #426086 02/11/13 09:43 AM
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tessboss Offline
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According to Greg Dowd, the professor of early American history at the University of Michigan and graduate of Princeton, you have made your conclusion based on preconceived beliefs and you are only looking to validate your steadfast beliefs and are not looking to complete your thought process to allow new or different information. You have some of the information and are correct on some of your information, but do not seek the full truth. He read your posts.

Re: gun control [Re: janimal] #426087 02/11/13 12:38 PM
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janimal Offline OP
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good for greg. however, he does not know me and has no idea how i reached my conclusions - professor or not. nor it seems do you.

actually my assumption had always been that the 2nd was fallout from the war of independence - that the militias were intended to prevent state oppression after the oppression which had been imposed by the british. however the more i read the more i realised the actual use of these militias was pretty much exclusively for slave control, which seems to me a pretty clear intention was the concession was about in the first place.

i have never had much doubt that the 2nd dealt with guns as weapons rather than tools - ie for hunters and farmers.

maybe you'd like to offer a cogent counter argument beyond 'you're wrong because my professor chum said so'. doesn't really wash with me.


Last edited by janimal; 02/11/13 12:40 PM.

It's All got to go!!!

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Re: gun control [Re: janimal] #426088 02/14/13 10:04 AM
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Hi All smile

I think that it must be clear to anyone watching the News that too many US deaths are caused by too many irresponsible people being allowed to hold firearms willy nilly.

When children can access guns in the cupboard at home, or in their mother's handbags, for example, then that is surely wrong.

This is how their friends, family, classmates, etc, can die deliberately or accidentally. I cannot see why anyone would argue against much tighter gun control.

I don't think that the history of the current situation really matters. Criticising American use of guns, etc, against slaves or native Americans, is no more anti-American than it is anti-British (and Irish) since so many early Americans were from the British Isles, anyway.


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: gun control [Re: janimal] #426089 02/14/13 11:14 AM
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tessboss Offline
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PDM I completely understand your position. The position of the people who do not want anything done to change the 2nd amendment is the "slippery slope" theory.

If you begin to legislate gun ownership then you erode the rights given by the 2nd amendment and pretty soon big brother has completely taken your rights away.

I really think the buying, and registering process could be tightened up and I do not understand why regular Americans need assault weapons with large clips. They have nothing to do with hunting or sport shooting.

Many believe that only law abiding citizens will be affected by any change and the criminals or wack jobs will get the upper hand by owning illegal weapons anyway.

It is damned if you do and damned if you don't do something. I think that what is being totally ignored are the social issues leading to gun violence. Mental illness being one. We also let our young spend hours playing violent video games that are never age appropriate and then wonder why they act out the scenes from the games.

Garbage in and garbage out but no one wants to sensor the first amendment either. Whatever you put out there is okay as long as you do not yell fire in a crowded theater. Kids time is suppose to sensored by the parents but the parents do not want to raise the kids anymore either.

Violence is a very complex issue and needs to be addressed on many fronts.

Re: gun control [Re: PDM] #426090 02/14/13 01:05 PM
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janimal Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: PDM
I cannot see why anyone would argue against much tighter gun control.


absolutely - i have been at the receiving end of a high power air rifle and while its not exactly like being shot with a semi, it aint funny. its simply beyond me why the right to own guns seems more important that peoples lives.

i do think that the connection to slavery is relevant, and it is important to examine why exactly why people are so precious about gun rights, and what the history of those attitudes is.

Originally Posted By: tessboss
If you begin to legislate gun ownership then you erode the rights given by the 2nd amendment and pretty soon big brother has completely taken your rights away.


absolutely ridiculous. you might as well argue that criminalising rape and heroin erode peoples rights. besides which in any western nation your rights mean absolutely nothing. every western state has laws allowing rendition and imprisonment without process, evidence or explanation under the guise of anti terror laws. as soon as the state decides its time youre in orange overalls.


It's All got to go!!!

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Re: gun control [Re: janimal] #430106 09/23/15 09:17 PM
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I apologize for my long absence. I keep reading on this forum about technical bla-bla this and that - laws, tech specs, etc.

I spent twelve years in the marines, 12 weeks on the island, 24 weeks specialist school and another 8 weeks staring through a scope. Out of all of this I learned one thing and one thing only one. Regardless of scale be it one person or an entire nation there's always someone that wants what you have and as US Veteran I am charged with having and holding what is mine and to protect my neighbors to the best of my ability.

This is the backbone of americas defense. Standing armies only do so much:)


"Nowadays, people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde
Re: gun control [Re: janimal] #430109 09/24/15 01:57 PM
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PDM Offline
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Hi Mongrel. Sorry, I've been away for a long time, too. Do I take it, then, that you are pro general gun ownership?


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: gun control [Re: janimal] #430110 09/24/15 05:04 PM
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Yes of course. I cannot fathom why the average civilian would need an A4A or an AR15 but being that there is power in numbers your average homeowner could settle for just about anything else.

I fail to fathom why people don't understand that governments are supposed to be afraid of their people.


"Nowadays, people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde
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