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Re: JW house witnesses [Re: PDM] #401433 05/22/10 06:48 AM
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tweetymom Offline
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PDM, thanks for that link! I'm looking forward to reading it. I did read some of it and bookmarked it so I can go back to it. I plan to give it a lot of my time in the near future.

Isn't the internet amazing? I would never been able to afford to buy any of those books! It's a whole new world for me to take in. I really do need something to take me out of myself at this time in my life.


Dinah, Tweetymom

RIP precious Merlin
7/11/1990-11/17/2009
RIP Tweetylove
5/13/2010
Rest with Merlin
Re: JW house witnesses [Re: tweetymom] #401442 05/22/10 04:07 PM
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Niki Offline OP
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I don't really have any problem with their practices. I see no reason to force my beliefs upon anyone. My belief in transfusions and handling crimes through the government is just as much a belief as any. If someone wants to handle grievances internally I don't really mind. If it works, and my kids aren't raped by their rehabilitated offenders, it's all good to me. Beliefs are beliefs, mine works for me and they're just as epistemically baseless as the next one.

Looking forward to tomorrow morning. Although I'm a little sad, I wanted to go to my home church with my family this weekend. I just purchased my/our first car. My parents have been down a car for quite a while so thought it'd be nice to finally go as a complete family. But, I gave the ladies my word and don't think it would be kind to stand them up.

Gotta do my studies though. They gave me this silly little book "What does the Bible really teach?" even though I told them I have many books on how to properly read the Bible. I asked them who wrote it and they didn't really have an answer for me. Apparently it's just some LDS propoganda... but they insisted I read it, so I'll read it and be sure to be prepared with plenty of questions as to what this "information" is based upon, if anything.

Re: JW house witnesses [Re: Niki] #401445 05/22/10 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Niki
I don't really have any problem with their practices. I see no reason to force my beliefs upon anyone. My belief in transfusions and handling crimes through the government is just as much a belief as any. If someone wants to handle grievances internally I don't really mind....

I cannot agree with you on this, Niki.

Children need a voice. It doesn't matter whose children.
I don't want my kids to suffer ~ but I don't want other children to suffer either.


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: JW house witnesses [Re: PDM] #401454 05/22/10 07:17 PM
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Niki Offline OP
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Sure children need a voice. But whose to say what the voice says is correct? The JWs believe, for whatever reason, the child will suffer in some eternal fashion if they receive a transfusion and we believe he/she will suffer now physically. Who's right?

I don't believe in forcing anyone to do anything that they so strongly believe will harm their child.

Re: JW house witnesses [Re: Niki] #401456 05/22/10 07:34 PM
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When children are neglected, or ill-treated, someone needs to step in to protect them.

Some terrible things are done to children in the name of religion. Should we just stand by and let them happen, simply because a religion is involved?


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: JW house witnesses [Re: PDM] #401486 05/23/10 04:38 AM
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Niki Offline OP
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And who defines terrible? smile

Is there objective morality then?

Re: JW house witnesses [Re: Niki] #401494 05/23/10 09:41 AM
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janimal Offline
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Originally Posted By: Niki
I don't really have any problem with their practices....If someone wants to handle grievances internally I don't really mind. If it works, and my kids aren't raped by their rehabilitated offenders, it's all good to me.


i find that completely abhorrent.

if you don't want to live in the middle ages, religion MUST be completely subservient to secular law, otherwise you end up with different sections of society living under different laws. there is no evidence that the joeys succeed in rehabilitating anyone, and justice can only be served by a democratic court of law, not a marginal and self interested sect.

and as for having no problem with their practices? denying medical treatment to dying kids is ok? hiding criminals so as not to incriminate your sect is ok? total censorship of music and literature is ok? if you want to live in an inquisition-esque society, be my guest. for my own part, over my dead body.


It's All got to go!!!

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Re: JW house witnesses [Re: Niki] #401496 05/23/10 10:10 AM
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Niki I've seen you go from one extreme to the other and I hope you are just saying this for the shock value. If not, if or when you have children you will see the what PDM, Janimal and I too are saying about this.

Children are born innocent into the world, with only their parents to protect them, and often not even them. The children are an entity in and of themselves, and they cannot make the decisions for themselves so how can it be right for another entity to make that decision to cut their life short? However you say it, we are trusted with these new lives. Not even having anything to do with God, no God, religion, etc.

I so totally disagree with you on this.

So Niki, in your opinion, what would child abuse BE?

Last edited by tweetymom; 05/23/10 10:16 AM.

Dinah, Tweetymom

RIP precious Merlin
7/11/1990-11/17/2009
RIP Tweetylove
5/13/2010
Rest with Merlin
Re: JW house witnesses [Re: janimal] #401497 05/23/10 10:42 AM
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Also, I have seen specials on TV and read of people who are sexual preditors, saying themselves that they NEVER lose the urge to be with children sexually. No matter how much therapy, counseling and what not, they still want to.

also there are large groups of people who do not think it's wrong to have a sexual relationship with children. They say the children love them and they love the children. Of course, when the child grows older, they become no longer interested. They, in their warptness, want a child. (*if that is not a word, it SHOULD be! lol)

No, I agree with PDM and Janimal on this.

I want the sexual predators out in the open where they can be monitored or at least be on the list as one. If the po;lice are lucky enough to keep track of them, they are not allowed to open their door on Halloween, or live in the vicinity of schools, or come around ANY children, ever. Once in a while, they even do sweeps to locate and search their homes to see if they have child porno, toys or anything that could be taken as wanting to be around children. In almost every case, they DO have those things in their possession. Unfortunately this is not always possible, because they did not register themselves as a preditor of children or because some self serving religion is hiding them!


Dinah, Tweetymom

RIP precious Merlin
7/11/1990-11/17/2009
RIP Tweetylove
5/13/2010
Rest with Merlin
Re: JW house witnesses [Re: Niki] #401504 05/23/10 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Niki
And who defines terrible? smile

Is there objective morality then?

Allowing children to be raped by the priest, and then calling them liars, because the priests 'would never do such a thing'.

Allowing members of the church to beat one's children.

Allowing a child to die - ie causing their death - because you the parent, not they the children, have chosen to believe a probably misunderstood text in the bible.

Killing one's child and having them raped and / or tortured because they choose to marry outside the faith, or not dress according to the guidelines of the faith.

Seriously damaging the genitals of young children because the parents and relatives think that this is what is right in God's eyes.

Marrying off young girls to strangers, so that they may be legally raped.

Keeping ones children virtual prisoners, so that they will not mix with 'inappropriate' people.

Causing emotional damage, by telling young children that they are full of sin and are likely to go to hell ~ or, if not them, some of their loved-ones, leaving them emotionally scarred.

The list must go on and on, I imagine.


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
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