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Gender Identity Disorder #398627 04/07/10 06:57 PM
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Niki Offline OP
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I'm finding this very difficult to have an opinion on.

http://www.webmd.com/sex/gender-identity-disorder

It's the topic of my recent online class Abnormal Psychology discussion, and I'm unsure of how to proceed.

Is it a disorder, a malfunctioning for one to wish to be another gender? Should transvestites be rehabilitated and placed under therapy to help them deal with their physicality, or encouraged to express themselves however they feel comfortable? Should we look at them as mentally ill, or simply different?

Re: Gender Identity Disorder [Re: Niki] #398629 04/07/10 07:41 PM
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The only perfect personality is the one that grew up in a perfect environment(without abuse or delay) and I understand that. But simply put - If you don't know whether you have a bing or a boo then you need to simply pull them down and take a look. I can only think of two functions that are more basic than those and they are all generally related.

Unlike moral, social or religious problems your bing, or your boo, is not really debatable or at least it's not for me. Man must be masculine and Verile ready take care of and defend Woman and the Woman must be ready to bear child and they must be ready to care for that child together. It's not religious nor academic, social nor political it is simply HUMAN. More than human it is mammal or it is universal to our planet.

I am sorry for I get tired of these yitties whining about their trans-surgeries and how they are really something their not though how they cannot afford the procedure or what not? It is a little disorienting. I do apologize for that is about as conservative as I get.

I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT I AM IN NO WAY ARGUING WITH ANYONE HERE. PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO LIVE HOW THEY WANT TO LIVE WITH A BING OR A BOO?


Last edited by Mongrel; 04/07/10 08:12 PM.

"Nowadays, people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde
Re: Gender Identity Disorder [Re: Niki] #398630 04/07/10 07:47 PM
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joandboys Offline
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why are you haveing a problem haveing an opinion? Is it because you are looking at it from a religious standpoint?

Wouldn't that be looking at a modern day illness from the standpoint of a medical book published in the 1800's when they still thought leeches could cause a cure simply by draining your bad blood?

There is insurmountable proof that there is probably not only emotional causes but biological causes for this condition.

Notice that I call it a condition. Just the fact that the medical description contains the word "Disorder" is agredgious to anyone who has this condition. It assumes if you are not like most others and quote unquote normal that you somehow are out of "order".

Helping someone accept their differences and accept that they may be that way for the rest of their lives and that it will be okay if they are, is the true path to "order".

That is or is purported to be the true path of Christianity also. Love one another as you would yourself. It doesn't say "but only if one another is exactly like yourself".

Once again, the creator is questioned by the creation and thought to be in error it seems.

That there is a difference does not matter. That the difference is accepted does.

It is not what is in the mind but what is in the heart.

Ask yourself, if a person suffering from this so called disorder were to stand before Christ. Would he say "I died for all mankind's sins but not yours".

How can any of us be so bold as to feel we need an opinion?

Do those who worship Christ believe that he stuttered and stammered and said "well, this is what I think but you form your own opinion on it.

I understand that when you are studying the bible and religion they expect you to intellectualize and disect and you automatically feel you need to form opinions.

I have nothing against opinions.

It just seems so duplicitous for someone who believes to forget the principles they say they live by. I want to make myself clear. I am not referring to "you". I am referring to the concept you are discussing. I am offering an opinion on your question as it applies to people in general so please do not feel offended. It is not directed at you but rather the concept of an "opinion" by anyone about this matter.

It is not much better for others who are not believers to be concerned about an opinion. Rather they might be better off wondering "why" they need one. Not "what" it should be.

If we look at one another as simply human and created equal whether it is in "God's" eyes or not we would be so much better off in my humble opinion.




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Re: Gender Identity Disorder [Re: joandboys] #398632 04/07/10 08:09 PM
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Mongrel Offline
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They actually still use sterile leeches in the modern medicine. They use sterile maggots too! It's kinda neat! Yea for real I saw it on Discovery Channel. There is some kind of spider that they use for its venom as a direct injecting antibacterium.


"Nowadays, people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde
Re: Gender Identity Disorder [Re: Niki] #398633 04/07/10 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: Niki
Is it a disorder, a malfunctioning for one to wish to be another gender? Should transvestites be rehabilitated and placed under therapy to help them deal with their physicality, or encouraged to express themselves however they feel comfortable? Should we look at them as mentally ill, or simply different?


I have never really had an opinion on the matter - one way or the other. But I have recently been exposed to two things that have made me think about how I feel about transgenders: a tv show and an article in a very popular magazine ("O Magazine") published this month. The tv show is about these three transgenders that have gone through the surgery and now help women and men dress, look, and feel better - boost their self confidence by helping those individuals learn to be happy with themselves - which I think is perfect because transgenders must have to go through so much in order to learn how to accept themselves - imagine feeling like you were never in the right body for your entire life - which is the way I see it coming about - as opposed to it coming about because it was the way they were raised or the other suggestions they have on the link you provided. I believe this to be true because imagine what these individuals must go through in order to look like the sex they truly believe themselves to be - not only is it expensive, but it's after years of living with yourself and figuring yourself out and then ultimately making that decision to go through with the change - then having to go through that extensive process. The other article was about a woman falling in love with a man and then that man telling her that he used to be a she. It goes through her telling her family and them asking her if she's gay, etc. etc. Well - long story short it's a love story and it ends happily ever after. I would suggest buying the magazine if you can get access to it - it's a really great read and very eye-opening.

I talked to my husband about this the other day - say if he were dating someone and he found out that she used to be a he - he said that would be an ultimate deal-breaker. I don't think I would react that way - it would be an adjustment and I'd want to get an understanding of everything and sure telling my parents would be difficult, but if I loved someone and wanted to be with that person, it wouldn't matter to me if they used to be a she because in my mind, they were always a he, they were just trapped in a she body. Sorry for using the "he/she" wording - it's not meant to offend - just seemed easier and more brief.

I don't see transgenders as mentally ill - they are individuals that have gone down a different path than the "norms" of society. Therapy might help them cope with who they are, but ultimately they know what's best for them and will make that decision. I would encourage them to find what makes them happy and comfortable - if that's going the surgery route - then so be it and I'm glad for them. They are strong individuals to go through that because I can't begin to imagine the ridicule they must go through during that stage in their life when they have to live the life of the opposite sex for a certain period of time in order to prove that they ar mentally ready to go through with the entire operation. I believe that's accurate - don't know how long they must live/act as the other sex... please someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

Re: Gender Identity Disorder [Re: MW1] #398643 04/08/10 12:25 AM
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Yes, I don't see this as something to have an actual 'opinion' on.

Some people are born in bodies that do not represent their actual genders. It must be awful for them. It must affect them psychologically.

As far as I am aware, these people are not transvestites and they are not mentally ill ~ and it doesn't feel quite right, to me, for a religious college to be looking at such people as some kind of 'project'.

Maybe I have misunderstood?


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Re: Gender Identity Disorder [Re: PDM] #398656 04/08/10 03:31 AM
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I think I have such a difficult time having an opinion one way or another because it seems too close to the homosexuality debate. Psychology once considered that to be a disorder also, and not that long ago at all. Psychology had deemed it unnatural and a product of trauma and negative environmental effects. Mainstream society agreed, yet now we accept it as a proper sexual expression. We've also gotten to the point of accepting fetishes (bondage for example) to where it's almost... attractive? When fetishes are still, technically, by the book considered a disorder.

I'm trying to keep all that in mind in relation to transvestites. Does that help make the issue clear?

And joandboys... not looking at it through a religious standpoint, I'm an Atheist. ;P BUT! The college is Christian. That isn't effecting my ability to express my opinions though. I can't inform them of my religious beliefs or I'll most likely be expelled, but I can have opinions and not feel the need to hide them.

Re: Gender Identity Disorder [Re: Niki] #398657 04/08/10 03:59 AM
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Niki Offline OP
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Actually, there's another issue.

Can people who have this disorder ever feel comfortable as their biological gender? Can they feel comfortable being the opposite gender, or will always be in a state of anxiety? We assume that it can be treated and that it's as simple as environmental trauma, but are we right? We say that about homosexuality as well, but even with extensive counseling and hormonal treatment, people continue their lives with deep internal struggle.

Re: Gender Identity Disorder [Re: Niki] #398663 04/08/10 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Niki
I'm trying to keep all that in mind in relation to transvestites. Does that help make the issue clear?


I am sure you meant to type transexual, if you did not you need to become more familiar with the terms that describe different sexual preferances.

Last edited by BLR; 04/08/10 12:14 PM.
Re: Gender Identity Disorder [Re: Niki] #398666 04/08/10 02:31 PM
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Transvestites are typically men who like to dress up as women. It doesn't necessarily mean these men wish they were women or that they are gay - it's just something they like to do.

For the sake of discussion: transsexual and transgender mean the same thing.

Originally Posted By: Niki
Can people who have this disorder ever feel comfortable as their biological gender?


I could be wrong, but I don't view this as a disorder, that is, if you speak of the disorder in the sense that it's a mental disorder. Not sure why, I just have trouble accepting it in those terms.

Originally Posted By: Niki
We assume that it can be treated and that it's as simple as environmental trauma, but are we right? We say that about homosexuality as well, but even with extensive counseling and hormonal treatment, people continue their lives with deep internal struggle.


To "we", as a society, that are not specifically going through what these individuals (both transgender and homosexual), it may seem it as something to be treated - but I don't think that's accurate. I believe transgenders are born this way - there was some sort of hormonal mix-up or something when they were being made. And I believe that hormones are not something that can be couseled away - medicated, possibly, but with the involvement of the brain and any developments within that, it could make it more difficult to "counsel away".

Let's take for example a very basic issue, that most people would not associate with hormones and one that I have experience with: wetting the bed. My father did it, I did it, my little sister did it - well into our childhood years (I'm talking until I was 10 or 11, maybe even sporadically after that). My little sister and I tried everything so we wouldn't wet the bed at night - ranging from working/strengthening muscles in that region, not drinking anything 2 to 3 hours before going to bed, going to the restroom just before bed then having our parents wake us up to go to the restroom again when they were going to bed. We tried beepers that would wake us up if it detected anything happening. All this was to no avail. It wasn't until I was 10 that the doctors were able to determine that my wetting the bed was a result of an underdeveloped hormone. I started taking nasal spray every night before bed as a hormone additive or replacement (I don't know exactly what) - and this pretty much stopped me wetting the bed. I eventually grew out of it because my hormone eventually developed - but this was something I grew up with and had to deal with - no sleep overs, no over night summer camps, etc. because I would always wet the bed and end up embarassing myself. My issue was something that was able to be treated because it wasn't a missing hormone, it was just a deficient one that eventually fully developed over time.

Now what I believe about transgenders is that they were born with something missing, not something that was underdeveloped, etc. And I believe you could only immitate that missing hormone, or whatever, for a period of time before it is eventually realized this treatment is only prolonging the inevitable and hiding who these people truly are. You can't counsel away nature.

I'm not sure how I feel about homosexuals - some may be born that way as evidenced in the way they act as children, while others may choose this path down the road (as evidenced by people being married for 30 years and realizing that they are happier with people of the same sex - I have seen this happen to one of my friends parents). This is an entirely different topic though from the one at hand, and therefore I will not delve into it.

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