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Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Lisa Shea] #388357 11/06/09 02:58 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,176
Carl Offline
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No, I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that perhaps a request for a moratorium and assurances that you actually appreciate and value your long-time members might have gone a long ways toward keeping the forum progressing.

I know that you run a literary magazine, so I know you have heart.

What I, and some others, are talking about, really, is the heart of your Forum. What do you think that it is?


Marge is the love of my life.
Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Carl] #388360 11/06/09 03:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,949
Lisa Shea Offline OP
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I'm not sure what you're asking for? A moratorium on allowing members to leave? That would go against everything I believe in. Forum members are always free to join or leave, that is a right I feel very strongly about. I would never want to block a member's choice.

A moratorium on banning inappropriate repeated posters? I think that would be equally inappropriate, yes?


Lisa Shea, Owner
Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Lisa Shea] #388366 11/06/09 03:39 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,176
Carl Offline
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I admit defeat. I cannot explain myself well enough. Nor does it really matter. It's all about what you believe in.

The tragedy is that many of the ones who have left also care very deeply about the keets and about animals of any sort.

And people from other sectons of the forum, who care about other issues, have also left.

I'm not saying that the new people don't have things they care about, nor that we should hate trolls.

The moratorium that I think you and/ore PDM might have requested when this last "flap" began would have been to delay asking to have an account deleted, or to suspend a deletion request that might be pending.

No, I most definitely did not mean a moratorium or suspension of the rules to delaty banning inappropriate repeated posters.

I guess what I was hoping was that you really cared about, if not liked, some of the long-time members.

I know I do, and I don't even have keets.


Marge is the love of my life.
Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Carl] #388371 11/06/09 03:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,949
Lisa Shea Offline OP
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Carl -

I am trying to listen to and understand your suggestion.

Again, you are asking me to hold back on a deletion request. I did in fact do that - I was asked by someone to delete their account, and they kept posting. Because they kept posting, I delayed the deleting process. They got very upset with me! So I did exactly what you are suggestion - and I was yelled at. So that was not the right answer.

For the other three people, I deleted their accounts as asked promptly, and they were happy. So that appears to have been the right response.

As much as it might seem appealing to try to be "parental" to forum members, that rarely leads to happiness. It works best to respect a forum member's wishes, which I think we would all hope for? We would of course always welcome forum members back with open arms if they chose to rejoin us!

"If you love something, set it free.
if it comes back it's yours,
if it doesn't, it never was."

Giving someone freedom is not a sign of not caring - it is the sign of ultimate respect.


Lisa Shea, Owner
Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Lisa Shea] #388373 11/06/09 04:03 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,176
Carl Offline
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I'll try again. I am not saying that you should have delayed a deletion request. I do understand that one complained that more immediate action should be forthcoming.

What I'm saying is that when the talk began of trolls and banning trolls and the language that was used in talking about the issues in the topics/threads involved, as well as the issues of possible troll activity, and the issues of honoring the rules of the Forum - then a request in a topic to members considering leaving the Forum, to consider delaying that leaving (delaying the asking for their accounts to be deleted).

The request for members to consider a moratorium before leaving (or asking for their accounts to be deleted) would have more integrity, of course, if a pledge was given to attempt to solve the problems that have been raised here, IMO. I do not intend to get into a discussion of what they might be.

As for the ones who left being happy, I do not know. I just know that I miss them.


Marge is the love of my life.
Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Carl] #388375 11/06/09 04:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,842
Coco's Mama Offline
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Ditto Carl, this all started on my birthday and I have cried every time I come on here, because the people who made me feel the most welcome and gave the best advice to me when I needed it are all leaving, sad, disappointed and hurting.

I miss them too.

Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Carl] #388376 11/06/09 04:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,949
Lisa Shea Offline OP
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I do appreciate your ideas and will give them thought.

To clarify - it is not that these members left without me talking with them. I spent a solid day talking with individual forum members, listening to their ideas, corresponding with them. I put in a serious investment of my time to try to help resolve the issue. If at some point a person says "I am done talking, I want to leave" then I believe the respectful thing to do is say "I respect your decision".

I would hope that I am more a "walk the walk" person than just a "talk the talk". I invest literally hundreds of dollars a month into this forum, between server fees and forum fees and other costs I have to pay. Maintaining the servers and software takes quite a lot of my time. All of this is done for the benefit of all members, and I do not get a dime of reward for it. In most cases I do not even get a thank you from members. I only get scolded when things are not the way they want.

I invested a lot of time in one on one conversations with specific members who wanted to discuss issues. I would hope all of these items would show clearly how much affection and care I have for this forum and all of its members.

It would be easy for me to just come on and post every week "I love and respect you all" - but hopefully my hours of work and my large investment of my very scarce funds are more meaningful?


Lisa Shea, Owner
Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Lisa Shea] #388379 11/06/09 04:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,035
BLR Offline
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OK Wow what happened. (rhetorical questions) Coco’s Mom, glad to see you and Carl are still on here. Lisa, Sorry to hear about Pinto.

Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Lisa Shea] #388386 11/06/09 04:50 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,176
Carl Offline
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I believe you know, Lisa, that I have expressed gratitude to, and admiration for, you and PDM.

And I do understand the investment in time and money, as well as how that shows your affection, care, and respect.

Posting each week that you "love and respect" us would only be effective if you show that this is indeed so.

In the ways that you state, it is true that you do walk the walk.

However, there is a fine point that you may not be aware of (and I could be dead wrong in how I think).

Before a friend invited me to come to this Forum (and she praised PDM's and your admin and direction), I had spent two or three years on a board that offered support for a group of medical disorders. It was primarily an information board, but it also had forums for members and different ages, and for families of people with the disorders.

The over-all board was owned as a non-profit organization. And the admin of the forum provided the forum used. A moderator with limited power was also used. To get to the point, the attitude of this board was always that the discussion forums were provided for the members, and we should be grateful.

A group of trolls had the entire forum at one another's throats.

People left because the admins supported the trolls, and disrespected the long-time members.

And the ownership of the non-profit organization and the admin never really got it, IMO. There was a very special group of people involved in that forum, IMO.

And I think there has been a very special group going here, also, Lisa.

I think that the life and heart of a board can be partly by the direction of how it is set up, and by the rules, and by the admin, but it is also about who are the members and how they treat one another. And in some really, really special boards, there are some really special individuals.

I thought when I first arrived, and I still think, that the mix here was pure magic! I am concerned that this is changing, as some of those really special individuals are leaving and not because they want their freedom, but because they think they're not wanted.

That's about all I can say.

You gotta have heart. It's about soul.


Marge is the love of my life.
Re: Flood of New Members [Re: Carl] #388391 11/06/09 06:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,949
Lisa Shea Offline OP
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I am sorry that any member of the forum would feel unwanted. I try to always show respect to every forum member, and to listen to their concerns.

I do not think I have said at any point that I did not want a forum member to be here. I am sorry if a forum member felt unwanted.

I believe what I have asked for is that all forum members treat all other forum members with respect, and follow our rules. I have asked that we treat all members fairly, and equally, and have us all abide by those rules.

Every member should have an equal voice, and every member should be treated with respect and patience.

I am very sorry if anyone felt this request was a sign of disrespect.


Lisa Shea, Owner
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