- edit -

I had posted some details about the situation of the editors who left, but on contemplation, I will leave it up to them to explain if they wish.

I will simply say that I spent over an entire day trying to soothe and work with the four disgruntled forum members. They still chose to leave, and that is their choice.

Lisa, the damage has already been done --several people saw your post, most of which was fabricated by you. I never at any point claimed I was "special" or "didn't care about rules", and you know that. I don't appreciate being painted as a self-absorbed jerk, when in fact I spent many, many hours simply trying to persuade you to be a bit flexible with your rules for the benefit of many, many members.

I cannot begin to imagine why you would lie and put such a spin on my words. I would have thought that was below you, but apparently not. Here is one of my posts, directly cut and pasted from the original, as you, PDM, and person XXXXX know:

"Your policy of openness isn't what's upsetting, it's the policy of treating trolls with the same respect as the regular members. Further, you used a tool which XXXXX provided in a way which did not further the interests of this forum.

All posts are not equal, all members are not equal, particularly people you know for a fact are trolls, and all complainers are not equal. All posters should not be treated as though they are just as valuable as the members who contribute time and energy to help others. That is widely perceived as a slap in the face to those who frequently donate their knowledge to this forum.

If "all posters should be posting with maturity," how did you decide to let Poultry Lover stay on this forum?

Your belief that you have "treated all forum members... with a tone of respect" is incorrect. Your overall tone is one of "Who cares what members think? It's all about MY policies being enforced." Lisa, one has to earn respect, and one way to do that is to not dismiss the concerns of so many, many members who have appealed to you for a long time to try adapting or adjusting your policies. Another way is to make an effort to understand the feelings of people who have been made a mockery of on another forum. Perhaps it is time to rethink your ten year old policies?

Lord knows, PDM has suffered the brunt of conflict after conflict. You made it clear in an earlier post here, Lisa, that you would be content to come on here and work with the troll boys; they are apparently more important than people who've been on here for 1 or more years?"

There's nothing I would like better than to get away from this forum, but I do need to add that I didn't delete my account after the last troll was banned -- General Disarray is still here! I really don't care what you do with this forum anymore, but I will not sit still and be slandered.

PandRMom - please indicate where General Disarray has made any post which you feel is inappropriate?

Even in my initial post, I was very clear not to mention any names. I never indicated who I was speaking of. I spoke only in generalities.

As you now wish to lay claim to the words "all members are not equal" - I will reiterate that I strongly disagree with that statement. All members *are* by definition equal, all are bound by the forum rules which require respectful treatment of all other members. There is not a membership category which is exempt from these rules.

I would ask again - do you feel that members who achieve some post limit - let's say 1,000 posts - should now be exempt from following the rules?

Of course you didn't mention names because that would have opened the door for a lawsuit, Lisa. Nobody said anyone should be "exempt" from rules, other than you. Intentional misrepresentation of others' words is pitiful. With regard to General Disarray, would you really like me to publicly post the link to the "trolls' nest?" Then everyone can judge for themselves.

PandRMom -

This forum does not judge people based on their associations with other characters. We do not hold you responsible for the actions of your family or friends. We do not judge people based on what they have said in other locations. We look at what someone posts in this forum, which is our community.

Please show me - in this forum - where General Disarray has said anything for which he should be banned by our forum rules.

It would be an violation of our rules if you honestly believe we should start banning people solely because of who their friends are, or because of things they have done in a completely unrelated area of the web. I will not agree that our rules cover either of those situations.

I would ask the question in reverse, Lisa: Should members who have posted for several months and shown themselves to be supportive of others and of the rules be considered expendable? Where is their respect?

I have seen others leave since I've been a member here. I won't go into detail about why they left, but I will say that they meant a great deal more to me than just an attitude of *oh well, that's their decisions.*

Yes, members come and go. And each member is unique. But some are more willing to share themselves than others. IMO, they are the ones more apt to be treated coldly and the implication given that the board is more important than them.

IMO, the success of the board has been more because of some of our members and their caring ways than the forum's ownership and administrative team may realize.

No disrespect is intended to anyone. I do feel sorrow, however.

Carl -

People can choose to leave the forums; that is quite different from feeling they are "expendable". No forum member is thought to be expendable - all forum members are treated with respect and are deserving of that respect. If someone chooses to leave, we wish them well and do as they wish. To do otherwise would be disrespectful.

Are you saying, if someone asks to to have their account removed, that I should not do it? In fact one of the members asked to leave, and then kept posting. I thought this meant she wanted to stay so I left the account alone. She then got upset that I had let her keep posting vs removing her account. So if I do *not* immediately remove an account, I am yelled at.

So it seems the most respectful thing, when someone asks to leave, is to fulfill their request politely and quickly. I do not feel that is cold - that is being professional.

Would you agree?

Fulfilling a request to have an account deleted is not what I was talking about. Even there, however, I think greater ultimate respect could be given to a "cool-down" period, where a person could reactivate an account that had been put on a phase-out stage. Say 30 days?

I know people can get heated, and they can get disgusted. And sure, they may come back and start over. But it's not the same.

But what I was talking about was the attitude that "they" made the decision to leave. "Oh, well."

Well, IMO the seeds of the distrust have been going on for some time now. I think that announcing a period of time where reassessment and healing can take place would be wonderful.

I wish you'd offer reinstatement to members who decide to come back (who voluntarily left).

Also, I think there are several who have suggested that members truly want to help. I understand the legalities that you explained, Lisa [edited to change the name I typed from habit]. Yet, you could have volunteers that you approve, plus some you appoint (if they accept), to discuss the feelings and issues and misunderstandings in a private forum.

Maybe the outcome would be a better forum.

Carl - again, when I delayed even 12 hours on removing someone's account, they got very upset. I do not believe that "refusing to delete their account" would have been a healthy way to respect their request.

Everyone who chooses to leave is welcome to return, as always! It has happened many times in the past that someone has left when they were upset, and then came back a few weeks later and once again was an active member of the forum. It is completely up to the user.

When someone wrote to ask for their information to be removed, my response was never "oh well". It was always "I respect your opinion, and I wish you the very best."

Again, these members explicitly asked for their accounts to be deleted. One specifically said she did not want her information in the system at *all* in case hackers hit the forum and could see it. I am not sure you really mean I should have refused to follow her wishes?