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Re: i hit my bird [Re: ] #374503 07/07/09 10:14 PM
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Chocoemilk Offline
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Of course they understand. There's even a National Geographic article on animal intelligence, and the star there is an African Grey which knows what does a triangle and a square are, he can count and ask for needs. To prove it wasn't conditioning they gave them different objects to count, always counting succesfully.



~*¡Pericos!*~
Re: i hit my bird [Re: kksuns] #374505 07/07/09 10:37 PM
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Love My Budgies Offline
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Originally Posted By: kksuns

I do happen to agree that many people are way to quick to judge here and start critisizing and coming down on someone way to fast and hard sometimes.


Normally I would agree, however, a small bird has no means to defend itself other than biting and in my opinion, hitting is not acceptable, not even for a dog or any other pet ever.
The original poster asked for advice and I gave mine with the bird's well being the focal point, even if others disagree with it.
I'm not sure about other states, but in my state someone under the age of 18 cannot legally enter a pet store and purchase any pet or bird, I'm sure due to maturity level and ability or lack of to care for an animal. Many times abuse or poor care is due to parents allowing their children to get pets/birds with no knowledge of how to care for them & no supervision. Seems to me this may be the case here. There is a reason it is illegal, and this showcases it, assuming the OP is under 18.
If I sound harsh it is because I love animals and wish their well being was first and foremost.

Re: i hit my bird [Re: Love My Budgies] #374506 07/07/09 11:21 PM
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Everyone agrees that a small bird could be severely maimed by a smack.

The culprit knows this as well as anyone ~ and feels terrible about these events. It was a knee-jerk reaction ~ and I'm not sure that we can prevent those, when we are suddenly shocked.

Now a lesson has been learned and, thankfully, the bird seems ok.

I don't think that there is any need to allow this thread to descend into arguments & unpleasantness. It won't help, or change, the situation, if this happens.


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: i hit my bird [Re: PDM] #374515 07/08/09 12:59 AM
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Aminah gave you good advice. Your dear little bird can learn to trust you again, but you must be trustworthy. Do not rush her, and do not give up.

I know you are upset with what you did. I do not believe striking an animal will teach it that aggression is wrong. They may stop a behavior out of fear if they are struck, or otherwise receive negative reinforcement, but you don't want that relationship with them.

I think the old adage "You'll get more flies with honey than vinegar." is very true.

Good luck

Re: i hit my bird [Re: skipperdog] #374527 07/08/09 04:46 AM
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baby blue Offline
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when you have a member of the hook bill family, you have an intelligent animal that is capable of learning right and wrong, yes and no, good or bad. when you own a budgie you have an animal that has the mental capabilities of a 3 to 4 yr old HUMAN child and the physical abilities of a 2 yr old.
if you own one of these gregarious little parrots, you will soon find out how smart they are and how quick they are to learn. they can learn how to open cage doors(as many unsuspecting owners have found out!)they can learn which areas they are and aren't allowed in and an array of tricks and behaviours from you and other birds.
patience, talking (they may not understand EVERY SINGLE word you say, but they CAN understand the tone of your voice.)and love will re establish your origional bond, if not strenghten it.
if anyone dosen't believe this, you have some research to do about your "friend" (i don't like to call them "pets" as i do not consider mine pets) they are also very attuned to YOUR feelings.
if you are always upset, scared, angry or sad. it FEELS these emotions and with no other outlet available to it, it does the only things it can. the 2 main things are stress plucking(not named that for lack of anything else)sometimes,to the point of self mutilation and uncontrollable screaming. the equqal of a tantrum in a child, too young to communicate verbally. children of this age are often known to hit themselves or bump their heads (not hard or violently)on walls or floors out of sheer frustration.(they do not have to be abused to produce these behaviours) with proper care, communication and love, children learn not to do those things. with proper care, communication and love, your bird can be shown that there are other ways to deal with things.
"trouble" or "vicious" parrots are often created by the people who got them and DID NOT look into what they were doing. these birds CAN be rehabilitated. your little keet was probably as surprised as you were and taking the time with it and teaching it... with love, i am sure you will have your pal back to rights in no time (don't be surprised if it is not pushing a button or two of yours either, they will sulk and suck up all they can get. i have one who wrote the book on that!)
as to that african grey... it does know colors, shapes, sizes as well. i saw that show. the woman could put a cluster of 2 sizes, 4 shapes and 4 colors out all at the same time and ask the bird to do a task. if she asked it for the small, green, squares... the bird went through the pile (of up to 30 pieces i think) piece by piece and brought her EXACTLY the size, shape and color she requested... EVERY TIME! an amazing documentary!
if ANYONE can read this and still not believe what our keets, lovies, conures, africans, macaws and other members of the parrot family can do... i ask you, in all honesty and no anger... SHOW me, and all others who believe as i do, LEGIT info, that we all can all have access to, that what we believe may be unfounded.


baby blue
Re: i hit my bird [Re: ShamRockStar] #374537 07/08/09 06:03 AM
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tweetymom Offline
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Sorry PDM, I must respond to ShamRockStar.

1. Certifiable?! Maybe, but I don't hit my birds, cats or dog. Period.

2. Nobody is talking about huge dogs or large animals.

3. So why bring Cesar Milan into the thread? He would probably be mortified.

4. Why attack me?

Last edited by tweetymom; 07/08/09 06:06 AM.

Dinah, Tweetymom

RIP precious Merlin
7/11/1990-11/17/2009
RIP Tweetylove
5/13/2010
Rest with Merlin
Re: i hit my bird [Re: ShamRockStar] #374543 07/08/09 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: ShamRockStar
I'm sorry but if you think your birds understand you apologizing to them but don't understand punishment you are certifiable. The bird doesnt understand punishment OR apologies.

My friend has a budgie, which seems to understand everything. I have read items and seen documentaries about how intelligent they are.
I am not saying that keets will or won't understand apologies & punishment - and I am certainly not condoning punishing such a timy creature - buit to say that someone who believes this to be true is 'certifiable' doesn't seem correct, or logical, or polite, to me.

If you are aimimg this word at someone in particular, then it breaks rules ~ so please express yourself and your thoughts in other ways.

Quote:
This is the reason why I don't frequent this board. There are communities out there where people help each other with their problems without judging and for some reason, no matter how this community evolves, with the exception of a very few people, this has never been one of those communities.

You are not the only person to have said this, so it is a problem which does need to be addressed.

Pets must be well looked after and members need to be treated with respect. Criticism can be made, of course, where birds' health & safety is at risk, but assumptions should not be made so quickly.

Good, decent members should be helped to be better owners ~ not frightened off the board.

It's different, if they are just here to cause trouble ~ if that is proved to be the case, then they can be banned.

However, calling someone 'certifiable' is not helping to prevent the negativity.

Quote:
Now we have an accidental instinctual reaction that caused a problem and REMORSE (the key sign that anger management isn't necessary) and out of three pages of posts 4 of the posters have been attempting to help.


I suppose the answer to this may be that people try to help in different ways. Somme want to help the person to cope with this issue.

Some want to help the bird to ensure that this cannot happen again.


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: i hit my bird [Re: tweetymom] #374544 07/08/09 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: tweetymom
Sorry PDM, I must respond to ShamRockStar.

1. Certifiable?! Maybe, but I don't hit my birds, cats or dog. Period.
I hadn't realised that this word was aimed at you.
Insults are unacceptable on this board.

Quote:
...
4. Why attack me?

Everyone please note:
We do not want ANY attacks, on anyone, ever.
Keep criticism calm, polite, respectful & constructive.


"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Re: i hit my bird [Re: PDM] #374558 07/08/09 01:16 PM
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I am 100% in awe what has happened.

1. You had made your point that stating that what if a toddler had bitten you. Would you have hit the toddler?!

2. I think this is being very hurtful, [not only to the bird but to yourself] and do you think that your bird will forgive you like how us humans can forgive others!!

3. This is a horrible situation. And C mom, you are 100% right about having anger management. I'm not trying to be aiming any problems at the poster on this thread but this is VERY uncalled for. Very.

4. Your bird probably will [a] feel like she/he did something wrong when YOU did something wrong to her/him. [b] remember who you are by : your finger, your scent, ect. ect.

Very uncalled for. I have made my point here and I will pray for your little
precious birdie. You had no right to hit her. I have one more question for you, and please do not avoid it, when you get the chance please respond back to me.

1. Hit or flick? Those are very different from each other.
2. Hit with a broom? Hit with your finger? What did you hit her with.

As I have said this is uncalled for.
I will pray for your bird.



Re: i hit my bird [Re: **mattie**] #374565 07/08/09 01:50 PM
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OK you know what? I was going to avoid this, but this is actually upsetting me a bit.

This person made a mistake, and they realize it. They are clearly sorry for what they did. There are really two things that are a big problem in pet ownership today--one is forgetting that your pet is not another human, and the second mistake is forgetting that you, as a human, are an animal too.

Part of training your pet is training yourself as well. If something bites you, it is human INSTINCT to defend yourself. When you have a small pet like a bird, you have to train yourself not to do that, because you could really hurt them, and neither of you gets anywhere.

This person made an honest mistake, and they were coming here to ask for our help on how to correct it, and everyone jumped right down his/her throat. I find that incredibly rude and unhelpful.

This person most certainly does NOT need anger management, and the fact that anyone here would suggest that shows me two things: 1, that they don't really understand what it means to have uncontrollable anger that would require anger management, and 2, that they didn't read the original post carefully.

This person did not act out of anger. It was a knee jerk reaction. Obviously they know that they shouldn't hit their bird, otherwise they wouldn't have posted this.

You all have done nothing but go out of your way to make this person feel even worse for what they did, when they were clearly remorseful anyways. And I don't care how y'all put it, you were not helpful, you were not understanding, and everyone who participated in the bashing should know better than that.

That is the bottom line. I don't care what you say to me. Poor form, you guys. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

Now, I'm gong to address rtegge the way they should have been addressed in the first place. Your bird will eventually forgive you. But you're just going to have to start from square one.

You'll have to earn her trust back, and don't forget that training an animal includes training yourself. From now on, you'll have to learn to override the instinct to swipe at your bird when she's biting you.

I know those bites can hurt, but the best thing to do is to not have any reaction. That way, she'll learn that biting is not effective and she should stop.

Just be very gentle with her, and prove to her that your not going to hurt her. The fact that she still comes to you and sits on your finger shows that she didn't lose complete trust in you. If she were truly terrified, she wouldn't come anywhere near you.

So just take it slow, and be patient. And remember that she's a tiny creature who, if you frighten her, will do her best to defend herself. You may not always know what you did to scare her (my bird inexplicably hates it when I wear nail polish), but remember to override your own instinct and stay calm and have no reaction.

Best of luck in regaining the trust of your bird.

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