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Re: to clip or not to clip #113379 11/03/05 05:07 AM
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Lone Wolf Offline
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Once again, you beat me to it.


Though all the world may hate us, we are named. Though shadow overtake us, we are known.

Fear is the absence of knowledge.
Re: to clip or not to clip #113380 11/03/05 05:08 AM
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And the whole cat thing is what I meant by "different situations call for different measures." Well I have school so I have to go, but I hope to continue this tomorrow, as long as it doesn't turn into a fight like previous similar topics have.


Though all the world may hate us, we are named. Though shadow overtake us, we are known.

Fear is the absence of knowledge.
Re: to clip or not to clip #113381 11/03/05 06:55 AM
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budgee Offline OP
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well, i read all the post's.. seems to be a mix of reactions, as to clipping. non clippers seem to base their decision on personal conviction, and clippers tend to base theirs on practicalities,
i could care less about budgees "right to fly" if i had that in mind i would have joined PETA and let all the little budgies loose after closing hrs.
but, seeing how budgees are domestic creatures flying now becomes a by-product of ownership regardless of how we may justify ownership...after all, it is ownership right? you did "buy" your budgie...right?? so, after you who place your pets on higher ground come to realize this fact perhaps ownership may take a different road...you feed your feathery little friend, such as i do, i place myself in total control, accept total responsibility for the well being of budgee, i am his master! he doesn't eat without me feeding him, the most basic proof, and i know he cannot live outside without care..so for budgees own safety its my responsibility to insure he does not fly away..without learning first that i am his owner, i am a good responsible owner,i love budgee, i will let budgee fly, after budgee learns and accepts his home, his owner and his life.
if budgee chooses to fly away after i have done everything in my power to teach him, then so be it, he will then either live in a cage all his life,after being caught or die from exposure from the elements. but.. so far so good , he enjoys living with me, in my office, in my house, i let him fly as far as his little clipped wings will carry him
he lives as free as he is capable of doing as a pet bird, i do as an owner look forward to the day when his wings grow back and he accepts his life here.

Re: to clip or not to clip #113382 11/03/05 07:06 AM
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budgee Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by Rick - Gebo's Human:
I hand trained Gebo in four days without clipped wings. He is a marvelous flyer and I could never deprive him of that joy. I do mean joy too.

Owners of birds that can fly normally will all agree that the bird LOVES to fly and you can see it in their behavior before and after they take off.

Cutting a bird's flight feathers is cruel and unusual punishment in my opinion and I would NEVER do it, especially to a developing baby, which most pet Budgies are when you get them.

Sorry to come off so hot on this, but I really do think it does more harm than good, and really only benefits the bird owner. The poor bird really gets nothing out of the deal but arrested development in terms of flight skills.

My two cents. wink
yes rick, i had a dog that LOVED to chase cars...guess where he is?? you take an animal out of his element and you accept all the little gremlins that go with it..in hind sight..should i have controled and trained my dog before i allowed him his "freedom"??...you tell me???

Re: to clip or not to clip #113383 11/03/05 07:15 AM
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budgee Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by judy:
"your bird must be made to trust you,an EXPERIANCED trainer can accomplish this...the average bird owner will loose patience very quickly..and as a result end up with a cage bound bird ( what a tragic shame!)"


i never knew that a living creature could be MADE to trust anyone. anyone with patience, kindness, and perseverence can GAIN the trust of an animal. and i would never consider someone who buys a bird and then leaves it in their cage because they lose patience an "average" bird owner.
all domestic animals are MADE to trust hence DOMESTIC! budgies are DOMESTIC like it or not. splitting hairs can always be done even at the micro level.."AVERAGE" bird owners???just consider the cost ( $20.00) and the frequentcy of purchase.
that should sum up the "debate"

Re: to clip or not to clip #113384 11/03/05 07:26 AM
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budgee Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by ReggieTheBudgie:
Quote
Originally posted by budgee:
[b] well lets al keep in mind that a wing clip is like a hair cut wink
Only in the sense that the wings grow back. That's where any similarity ends.
A haircut doesn't affect the person's mobility in any way, shape or form. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that wing-clipping temporarily handicaps a bird (there are many pro-clipping people here, so, just to clarify, I don't want to provoke anyone!) but I really don't think it's comparable to a haircut. [/b]
hate to hurt anyones feelers...but its EXACTLY like a haircut if done right....mobility is EXACTLY what your trying to control, you are the owner!,assume the responsability feathers grow back.why make training harder then it has to be?

Re: to clip or not to clip #113385 11/03/05 09:33 AM
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I would just like to say that after many years of experience with domesticated pet budgies that there is a big difference in a pet budgie that isnt clipped to one that is.Also clipping a birds wings after it has been used to flying can actually stress the bird very much.The bird all of a sudden loses the ability to fly and in my opinion that isnt good for the bird.You do not have to clip a birds wings to make him tame in my opinion if you are only doing it for this reason then it is cruel.

Re: to clip or not to clip #113386 11/04/05 03:43 AM
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Blaze Offline
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Well I agree... but what if they come clipped and some people just assume they are supposed to stay that way and never fly.


~Blaze
Birds:
Kazu, Jazz, and Kodi
Cats:
Pebbles, Blaze, Curtis, Leo and Capizo.
Re: to clip or not to clip #113387 11/04/05 04:06 AM
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non of my birds have ever been clipped. I prefere my oets to WANT to be with me, I dont want to force it, but the more force you use the more you will drive them away. Taru has never been clipped, he chases off my dogs so he can have me to himself lol training him was abnormally easy, yes the first few times of being out of his cage, trying to ctach him was h*ll but when he started to trust me enough and fly to me freely and give me kisses, with no encourgment from me to do so.. well thats and awsome feeling. he does not sit on my head or shoulder because he has to, he does it because he WANTS to be with me. to me there is nothing to beat the feeling that you have truly gained an animals trust. I train all my pets with this in mind. I have a rabbit from the shelter the first 2 months I had her she would actually seek me out to attack me, but I continued to let her out and let her come to me, now many rabbit people are jelous that my rabbit will jump into my arms and I can cradle her in my arms like a baby. my dogs can be walked off leash and wont leave my side for a steak. like I said nothing can beat the feeling of having a pet that trusts you so completly that they dont have to be forced to be with you.


Shayna, Taru, and the furry crew
Re: to clip or not to clip #113388 11/04/05 04:34 AM
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My sentiment exactly, Taru's Mom; you said it much better!

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