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Re: to clip or not to clip #113349 11/02/05 02:23 AM
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La Sierra Madre Offline
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reggie,
sierra was clipped when i got her as well, i didn't have a choce. and although i'd love to let her fly, there are more than one stories of keets who have died/suffered severely from being flighted because they flew out the window/hit the wall... i just don't want to tske that chance. and i have mirrors everywhere, it would be totally unsafe.

Re: to clip or not to clip #113350 11/02/05 03:48 AM
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Blaze Offline
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Yeah I am having a horrible time deciding... if I want him to be in danger of flying into sometihing or my cats getting him if he ever got out or even him flying out of our house... stuff like that he came clipped and escaped once when the cats weren't around it took me and Trinity's Mommy a long time to get him even with out his wings... he would stay still he was flapping closer and closer to the cats litter box in the other room... I got scared and ran into front of him and then Trinity got him by getting the cage closer to him and he finally got close enough so I could use the clean fish net (never used) to push him in... he was so scared and breathed hard for about an hour... it scared me pretty bad... what if he odes that again... I guess he got scared and out he went.


~Blaze
Birds:
Kazu, Jazz, and Kodi
Cats:
Pebbles, Blaze, Curtis, Leo and Capizo.
Re: to clip or not to clip #113351 11/02/05 04:14 AM
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ReggieTheBudgie Offline
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Well, it all depends on your circumstances. If I had cats or kids around and couldn't ensure my birds' safety, I would probably clip my guys' wings too. I'm really happy with them being able to fly around, though. It's very nice to watch and you can tell they really enjoy it too! smile

Re: to clip or not to clip #113352 11/02/05 04:18 AM
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Blaze Offline
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Yeah that experience really scared me I though he had gotten litter on him, but it was his feather... I though he could get sick if it had been litter I was so worried... then he tried the same thing the other day, but his time the cats were in the room, but luckily my hand was in the way so he just couldn't come out again.


~Blaze
Birds:
Kazu, Jazz, and Kodi
Cats:
Pebbles, Blaze, Curtis, Leo and Capizo.
Re: to clip or not to clip #113353 11/02/05 04:23 AM
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La Sierra Madre Offline
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it IS very scary. sierra was out and playing on her tray beneath the cage. i was reading, and watching her at the same time (read, glance up, read, glance up, read, glance up) when suddenly i saw her hang upside down. she couldn't get back up. then she flipped and her head got stuck between the bars! she scared me to death.... i was so shocked and scared that i was staring like an idiot. she could have choked to death, and there i was, frozen... it was so scary. now i wrap a blanket around it. good thng she was perch trained at that time.

Re: to clip or not to clip #113354 11/02/05 04:24 AM
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ReggieTheBudgie Offline
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Blaze, that incident you describe is proof that clipped wings don't guarantee safety. I mean, one can't just say "They'll be fine, they can't fly" because:
-they can probably still manage to fly a short distance, just enough to get into trouble!
-it's hard to tell when the wings have grown back enough to allow them to fly (my sister lost a bird just because of this -she thought the bird couldn't fly away but the little guy did!)

I have had flighted birds for three years now. I guess I'm lucky in that my guys have a VERY predictable routine and they almost never change their flight route! They are such creatures of habit! Anyway, it works well when they are so predictable.

Re: to clip or not to clip #113355 11/02/05 05:19 AM
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Madison Offline
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I think clipping just for the sake of training is cruel. It's rendering a living creature helpless so it's forced to depend on you for everything, even before it may be ready. I don't like the power struggle that implies at all. In people, that would be an extremely unhealthy relationship.
I'm not saying don't clip. I'm just saying that I do not think the "clip to make them like you" mentality is a good one.


-------
"The most beautiful arrangement is a pile of things poured out a random."
-Heraclitus

http://www.livejournal.com/users/metricula
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Re: to clip or not to clip #113356 11/02/05 08:53 AM
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Rick & Gebo Offline
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I hand trained Gebo in four days without clipped wings. He is a marvelous flyer and I could never deprive him of that joy. I do mean joy too.

Owners of birds that can fly normally will all agree that the bird LOVES to fly and you can see it in their behavior before and after they take off.

Cutting a bird's flight feathers is cruel and unusual punishment in my opinion and I would NEVER do it, especially to a developing baby, which most pet Budgies are when you get them.

Sorry to come off so hot on this, but I really do think it does more harm than good, and really only benefits the bird owner. The poor bird really gets nothing out of the deal but arrested development in terms of flight skills.

My two cents. wink


[]Rick - Gebo's Human Provider - Seattle, WA.
Re: to clip or not to clip #113357 11/02/05 09:33 AM
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Sylv Offline
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Sierra you say that budgies that can fly get into danger but don't you think clipped birds do too.I have never clipped any of my budgies wings and never will.Obviously you need to cover mirrors and make sure the windows and doors are closed but you have to take precautions also with clipped birds.With cats about I think wing clipping is much more dangerous for the bird.The older the bird and the more used it has become to flying the crueler it is.Imagine a bird that flies then all of a sudden he takes off and bang hits the ground or flutters around not being able to get where he wants.I wonder how that feels to the bird.With baby birds it isnt as big a shock but still in my opinion it takes away their independance and most of all their confidence.A bird that can fly and has never had its wings clipped is confident,balanced and happy.They not only use their wings for flying they use them for balance.I think it is so unfair and cruel to clip a birds wings just so that you can pet him and have him on your hand and make him rely on you.He isnt doing it out of trust and friendship,he is doing it because he has no choice.How frustrating it must be for a bird to want to go to a particular item or his cage or whatever and cant.He cant ask you to put him there can he.I know if they are clipped certain ways they can fly somewhat but why not just let them fly?

Re: to clip or not to clip #113358 11/02/05 01:40 PM
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judy Offline
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"your bird must be made to trust you,an EXPERIANCED trainer can accomplish this...the average bird owner will loose patience very quickly..and as a result end up with a cage bound bird ( what a tragic shame!)"


i never knew that a living creature could be MADE to trust anyone. anyone with patience, kindness, and perseverence can GAIN the trust of an animal. and i would never consider someone who buys a bird and then leaves it in their cage because they lose patience an "average" bird owner.


i will always miss and love you charlie and chica \:\(
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