I'll look at Part 1, first.

Yes, I understand that Leonardo ~ and others ~ painted young men in an effeminate way.

I realise, therefore, that just because a model / character looks effeminate doesn't have to mean that this is a female.

With regard to this particular character, though, it is interesting that there appears to be a tradition of painting 'John' and 'Mary Magdalene' so that they look very similar indeed.

I would be interested to know the reason for this phenomenon, which is illustrated in the following thread:
Art - Why should 'John' look so feminine?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=78565#Post78565

With regard to the two specific pieces shown, there is another one that is very, very similar.

It is shown in this thread:
Painting attributed to Salai
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=306587#Post306587

The above pictures are shown / discussed here:
Also two more images ~ 'the beloved disciple' and 'the virgin Mary'. They are very, very similar to each other & also resemble, somewhat, the males discussed:
Look here:
'How the apostle John was usually portrayed'
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=79832

I have posted 'the beloved disciple' and 'the virgin Mary' here, too:
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=79593

Three views of 'Mary' can be accessed here:
'Virgin of the Rocks - Again'
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=342371#Post342371


I said on another thread: 'There is an art researcher, called Maike Vogt-Luerssen who thinks that the same model posed for many of the females, in Leonardo's works, and that this woman's son, who resembled her, posed for a lot of the males.'
Quoted from my post here:
John, Mary Magdalene, or The Virgin Mary?
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=77519

See also:
Isabella of Aragon; a Sforza and Leonardo's model.
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=78623

Also relevant:
John slideshow on youtube
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=215989#Post215989

Leonardo's depiction of youthful males
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=79260

Last edited by PDM; 01/11/09 11:42 AM.

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