Part 1

Originally Posted By: this writer
Although there may seem to be a degree of redundancy to some while reading what follows, please keep in mind it is offered with the intent of looking at the issue from different but related perspectives

Originally Posted By: PDM
I have been reading about the letter 'Y'. I hadn't realized that it was so interesting

Indeed…but it’s not about the “Y”, it’s about how it’s used that critical analysis should be brought to bear !!

The function of a “Y” must be differentiated between its use in an alphabet associated with language construction versus a stand alone function as a symbol wherein it has nothing to do with word assembly.

To say it another way, just because a linguistically-unrelated “Y” is found painted on to or chiseled into a ancient wall somewhere does not validate the claim that Leonardo da Vinci used a linguistically-related “Y” to paint "by optical illusion" the name "Mar-y" on the sleeve of The Mona Lisa.

Any occurrence observed as "generalized usage" of the “Y” whether by Euclid, Templars, or Masons must be evaluated on the basis of whether or not it occurred in a language setting versus within (surrounded by) a language wherein it functions as no more than a "symbol". If a ”Y” is not "in" a word but was merely a "symbol" representing an early concept, philosophy, or mathematical expression, then it would not have been carried forward into a modern day word like “Mar-y” before the language naturally evolved by the slow process of assimilation and accommodation of other language characteristics over centuries into something like today’s English.

Originally Posted By: Grrr82CU, 10/06/07
… what “evidence to this end” is there suggesting "Mary” was in colloquial usage in Leonardo’s time?

Originally Posted By: da Vinci Project spokesperson submitted under the screen name “nanago”, 10/07/07
Why would I let out all my research at this time and point, but I did point you in a direction, now if You want Grrr82CU you can research this for yourself, I have spent 4 years on this

Thank you for the general “compass heading” and the insight this response has provided regarding the “da Vinci Project, Research Group” thinking.

Presuming the above response was authored by Michael Domoretsky, Executive Director and/or Graham Noll, Operations Manager of the “da Vinci Project, Research Group” (entered under the screen name of “nanago” on 10/06 and 10/07 compared with other entries), the question was not meant as a request to disclose specifics of research per se, only to understand the scope and nature of information being considered relative to maintaining the position that Leonardo used either (a) a modern English word (“Mary”) and/or (b) that name was in colloquial usage during Leonardo’s life.

Originally Posted By: da Vinci Project spokesperson continued, 10/06/07
If you find evidence….in contradiction to a specific finding by all means let us know so that we can include it in our deliberations (elided portion this writer for brevity)

Originally Posted By: nanago, 10/07/07

  • Euclid used the letter "Y" in his Arabic Language,250-325 BC
  • Ptolemy, Also used the "Y", 250-325 BC
  • Pythagoras, Also used the letter "Y" in Greek, Language

Pursuant to the invitation to bring forth anything in “contradiction”:

Given all that follows, it seems highly improbable that proponents will ever be able to produce examples in support of their claims that the “Y” was in limited (much less widespread) grammatical usage in the times of Euclid, Ptolemy, Pythagoras, or Leonardo for the following reasons:

  • With all due respect, it seems there is a greater probability that when proponents such as the "da Vinci Project, Research Group" encounter a “Y” in a historical setting (such as the Pythagorean “Y”), the conclusion drawn is a misinterpretation of it as a “letter” rather than seeing it in the context of its original purpose as a “symbol

We see this confirmed, no doubt unintentionally, in the following quotations:

Originally Posted By: nanago, 10/10/07
The "Y" was also used with the Masons and Templars in the Year 1100 CE. as a Symbol and a Mark..(“BC” corrected to “CE” as a courtesy. Color emphasis also added by this writer)
Originally Posted By: nanago, 10/11/07
If you were a 'Mason or Templar', you would understand that both these Orders used the "Y" in there Symbols and Marks
...a few places where the "Y" ,was used in Symbols dating from 1100, 12th Century
Originally Posted By: nanago, 10/11/07
...from Monserrat in Spain you will also see in the first picture that everything Jesus and the men around him are holding are both Masonic and "Templar Symbols"

Originally Posted By: this writer
Reminder - this is about evaluating the claim that Leonardo da Vinci, ostensibly because of his studies of Euclid, Ptolemy, and Pythagoras, employed a "Y" in painting the name of "Mar- y" by “optical illusion” on the sleeve of The Mona Lisa, a name not occurring in his Italian, using a [color:#000099][b]“letter” not in his alphabet that had not even evolved into English usage at the time he painted The Mona Lisa !!

As seen from these quotations, the "Y" is being interpreted as a "symbol" ~ yet ~ Leonardo is supposed to have migrated it from being only a "symbol" into a "letter" to create "Mar-y"
  • Considering the alphabets of the languages they apparently used during their lifetimes, where are examples from the writings of Euclid, Ptolemy, or Pythagoras in which they used a ”Y” in the spelling of a word ?? (such as in English for toda-y, Johnn-y, anal-y-sis, y-ellow). Such examples don't exist.

  • Based upon any study of Euclid, Ptolemy, or Pythagoras that Leonardo did, why would he have painted either a word, ("Mary”) ~or word ending ~“Y”) on the sleeve of The Mona Lisa ?? After all, as all historic evidence of the alphabets, grammar, and linguistic usage involved shows (in spite of claims by the "da Vinci Project, Research Group"), Leonardo could not have found examples in early Italian or the Greek/Egyptian/Arabic of Euclid, Ptolemy, or Pythagoras to inspire or mentor him on how to spell with a " Y " because it was missing in all of their words as a LETTER (compared to a "Symbol" used to accompany "words" in sentences but not to construct (spell) a "WORD" ) !!

So as not to have one post of mind-numbing length, it has been split up into several entries that follow in numbered sequence.

...and Grrr82CU smile

Last edited by Lisa Shea; 12/30/12 07:33 AM.

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